Featured OT Prophecies applied to gospel age, the Church

Then dispute the issue with Romans 11.

Paul clearly states that God is NOT through with the political/social group called Israel, but will in the future join all believers to that group.

That is what "grafted into" means. The tree was not destroyed, but modified by the graft.

Your waiting on Acts 2 is answered in Romans 11.

The opening verses of the chapter refute your assumption:

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
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Perhaps you can render it in some other way that what Paul states throughout Romans 11.

But, I would rather trust Paul who not only was inspired, but quoted OT prophet(s) for support of his statement as to the future of Israel.

 

Really? I suppose that what Paul said doesn't apply if you refuse to read it.

25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

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28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
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The "partial hardening" will be lifted AFTER the time of the Gentiles. When is that time? THE Millennium.


Of course in the covenant scheme they generalize and disallow the millennium to the point it doesn't exist as it is in Scripture.

So, to a group, that doesn't take the Scriptures literally in this matter, it isn't worth any more of my time.

Generally the folks of this group have shown to be incapable of recognizing the above passage as God bringing Israel - ALL Israel - to repentance and belief in the future.

 

Who are His people that are not rejected? For over 2,000yrs He has rejected every Jew who does not come to Him via the Messiah. Millions, if not billions, of Jews are in hell. Where is their salvation as God's special people? You say He's not through with political/social Israel. What does that mean in relation to salvation? Will God accept unbelieving Jews just because they have some speck of Abraham's blood in their veins? Who EXACTLY has He not rejected? Are the Jews of the past 2,000yrs being held in "Abraham's bosom" until the reestablishment of the Old Law?

I was taught that nonsense for the first twenty-something years of my life. I studied the New Covenant at a Bible college that believed that nonsense. It didn't take long for me to see the incredible foolishness of the belief that God has two separate people & that He would "pause" the eternal New Covenant in order to bring back the fulfilled Law of works & animal sacrifices for a brief period of time. All of this to give land & power to a people who would mostly reject Him & go to hell. That is the insanity of futurism.

Every believing Jew is a part of the true Israel through Christ that will be saved. This truth is irrefutably stated in Scripture. Unbelieving Jews are NOT counted for the seed of Abraham. This is another irrefutable truth that lays waste to the notion that physical descendants of Abraham are owed promises of the Father. Besides, Scripture states that ALL promises to the nation of Israel were fulfilled, just like the old Law. And yet dispensationalists constantly proclaim them both to be unfulfilled; that the nation of Israel needs something more than Christ...earthly land & power over other peoples. That is madness!!

ALL Israel will be saved. Well, billions of Abraham's descendants are in hell for unbelief, so that obviously is not referring to the nation of Israel. I just wish there was another way for that passage to be correct. I wonder if there is another Israel made up only of believers, so that "all of Israel" will be saved. We know God cannot lie & that His Word is true. Therefore, since the application of "All Israel" cannot be referring to the physical descendants of Abraham, for God says they are not counted as the seed (that means they will not all be saved), then we must look in Scripture for the 100% fulfillment of that passage. Believe me, it is there. Some just choose to ignore it. Dispensationalism requires one to twist Scripture to the point of absurdity in order fit that ideology into the pages of Scripture.

 

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. (Galations 2:16-18)

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Romans 3:20-24)

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Romans 9:6-8)

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9)

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13)

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(Romans 11:26-27)

These passage annihilate the futurist position. SO many more could be listed. The "all Israel", which futurists somehow apply to a tiny minority of genetic Israelites over the Centuries, must come to God through faith in Christ; not through a temporal kingdom with a resurrected old covenant that couldn't save anyone.

 

Ok, then "progressive dispie."

 

The church IS New Covenant Israel. Look at Jeremiah 11:

Jer 11:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 11:2 Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
Jer 11:3 And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,

Jer 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Jer 11:17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

Therefore, Romans 11:17 is clearly a reference to Jeremiah 11:16. The olive tree is Israel, plain and simple. It is not a "position of blessing," it is Israel.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree [or "shoot"], wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The church is New Covenant Israel. Under the New Covenant "all shall know [God] from the least to the greatest of them." This is true of the church. God reserved to Himself a remnant of faithful Jews from Old Covenant Israel "according to the election of grace." These were the apostles and their converts who received the New Covenant made with the house of Israel and Judah at Pentecost. The unbelieving Jews of "Israel after the flesh" were cut off through "partial blindness." Then, under Paul's ministry and with Cornelius and others, Gentiles by faith were grafted into the olive tree, which is Israel. They are made bona fide members of the New Covenant. Jew and Gentile are now equal before God and the olive tree is reconstituted under the New Covenant, consisting of believers only. All members of the New Covenant now "know the Lord from the least to the greatest of them."

Also, just because it says that "partial blindness has happened to Israel [after the flesh] until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" doesn't mean that something is supposed to change after this "fullness of the Gentiles." Romans 11:26 says "And so all Israel shall be saved..." The word so does not mean "then," it means "in this manner." The "partial blindness" (cutting off unbelieving natural branches) so that the remnant is preserved and Gentiles being added along with natural branches being grafted back in again IS the manner in which "all Israel shall be saved." All Israel is saved progressively when every elect Jew and Gentile comes to faith. When the veil is taken away in the heart of a Jew (2 Cor 3:16) and when a Gentile turns from idols to serve the living God (1 Thes 1:9), all Israel is being saved.

The New Covenant is a full and present reality. If we partake of "the cup of the New Covenant in My blood," we are clearly members of the New Covenant. This New Covenant was given by Christ to His disciples at the last passover, ratified at the cross, and inaugurated at Pentecost. Paul said the we are now "able ministers of a new covenant." We are not waiting for a future New Covenant with an ethnic Israel.

 

From J. MacArther, from his commentary on Rev 20 in which he contrasts pre-mil with Post and Amil.

I agree with him in that the heart of debate is really over hermeneutics.

Oh and by the way, let us acknowledge what 'literal sense' means. Since some will try to be funny and state, "if we are to be literal does that mean Jesus actually has eyes with fire coming out of them, as stated in Rev?"