OT Salvation

Heb 11 - saved and taken to heaven in the case of Enoch, Moses and Elijah. SAVED such that THEY are the giants of faith held up as examples to the NT saints!

Romans 4 - saved to the point of being the FATHER of the faithful.

Heb 4:1-3 "WE have had the Gospel preached to US JUST as they also"

For it is appointed unto man "once to die - and THEN comes judgment" Heb 9.

SAVED so that those OT saints are called "The DEAD IN CHRIST" when they are raised at the rapture of the saints in 1Thess 4.

Those groups that teach that you can "get saved after you die" are not getting that particular doctrine from scripture.

The OT SIN problem (depravity and needing the new birth) was the SAME as it is today -- and the solution (new birth, new covenant, new heart, work of the Holy Spirit etc) was/is the SAME.

Further - "God so loved the WORLD" before the cross.

Noah a preacher of righteousness - worked for God.

Jonah ministered to Ninevah for God.

The King of Salem -- worked for God

God has always "so loved the world" -- yes even before the cross.

Hint: this is the short form of my argument. More if people are interested.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Questions Questions Questions

Without the law, there is no sin. So... I think that means everyone was saved automatically until the law (10 commandments) came into effect.

 

(Not the mention the rest of Bob's post) There is your answer. From Adam onward all humans are saved through faith in the gospel.

 

Men were "begun to be saved." What do I mean by that?

Salvation involves 3 "steps:" 1) Justification by God, 2) Sanctification by the Spirit, and 3) glorification by the Son at the rapture/change.

Anyone who knows anything about the OT-NT knows that salvation begins always and ever with repentance unto faith In the OT, this was repentance toward God the Father Who gave to men the "righteousness of God" but no Holy Spirit indwelling.

In the NT, we repent towards Christ Who is God revealed in flesh. Our repentance is still toward God BUT our "gift" from God is to be like Christ -- to be sanctified with His Spirit indwelling us.

Now, HP, I think that upshot of your OP is "How then do the OT saints become sanctified by the Spirit indwelling?" Instead of being raptured with the church who are indwelt pretrib, they will be resurrected postrib (Mt 24:31) to Christ's earthly MK. THERE they will repent towards Him and be indwelt/gifted as we are now until the end when they will be raptured/changed as we were.

skypair

 

Yes, by grace alone through faith alone in the death of Christ alone who was to come.

 

Now, the law only increased the trangression.

 

The NT authors state clearly that Adam 'sinned' Romans 5.

The OT states clearly that God warns Cain about 'sin' and the fact that he was to get the victory over it.

The text of Romans 4 is clear that where there is no law there is no sin.

God was specific in stating the "Abraham kept my laws, commandments and statutes" when speaking to Isaac and Jacob.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Looks pretty Scriptural to me.

 

There are some who teach the hope for the redeemer began here;

Ge 3:22 (KJV) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Depending on your view of Job;

Job 19:25 (KJV) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

 

Sorry, I guess I should have continued but thought it was obvious. Saved automatically through Gods grace and faith in the Messiah.
I was aware of Adam and Eve and the apple, but didn't realize that was called "The Law". Cain, well there you go. Somehow I suppose he knew it was wrong to kill. Maybe through his parents like Scarlett said.

 

Great question and interesting thought, the first I recall this explained in scripture was Isaiah 53 yet that appears to be prophesy. I wonder what was their understanding?