our baptist Church Now officially belives Sign Gifts still operate!

It's called the autonomy of the local church.

 

Yes, and Baptists were historically part of the Free Church movement. ;-)

 

It's the nature of biblical interpretation. And we should not allow our differences to divide us. But sadly, they do.

 

Let me take a contrary position. Obviously a local church can take whatever position they want to. But if those in the local church are allowed to actively speak in tongues, it will eventually drive out those who believe it is not for today. Those who believe it ought not to be will not continue to come to the church.

By taking a stand you always divide believers. No matter how open we are to allowing for other doctrinal issues, the moment the pastor preaches a particular position about the gifts, eschatology or soteriology, the church is going to be face to face with differences.

 

You've muddle the matter.

Now, direct the same question to the positions you hold?

 

Such is expected. But it's the leadership to take a firm stand and let their position be clearly known.

After that, it's up to the membership. But good leadership would allow for properly doctrinal navigation, not the messy stuffs that usually result.

 

When there were real spiritual gifts in the church...they operated in the service. It is not for us to regulate God. These churches that allow every idea and stand for very little are doomed to lukewarmness. This is nonsense. Catholics do the same. Sorry this church is going wrong.

 

Icono....just what are you afraid of?

 

So will your pastor state what he thinks? If he says that speaking in tongues is not of the holy Spirit but is purely a human invention, but allows those who do to speak in opposition to what he believes the Bible teaches, how can it not help but cause division. It would be the same thing if he preached that it was of the Holy Spirit and those who think it is human and emotional in origin. It will cause division.

And that is also a part of many other positions. Any way the preacher preaches those doctrines you have decided out to be completely freely held, he is going to antagonize the opposite side.

I pray it won't happen in your church. But I fear that you have sown the seeds of a split body in this stand.

 

If he (JF) is saying the majority believes it then how you going to have a split body....worst case, decenters leave.

 

2 answers: (1) it was stated as a church that allowed the love to rule the differences; (2) The gift issue was not the only one that was mentioned.

Do you know lots of Calvinists who would be able to stay at a church where the pastor was strongly non-calvinist/arminian? Do you know lots of non-Cals who would stay at a church where the pastor preaches Calvinism?

I've just never known a church that adapted this kind of philosophy that didn't turn into a full blown charismatic congregation. (And I don't believe that charismatic is necessarily a word of faith congregation.)

Like I said, I pray they will prove me wrong.

 

Well...is that the direction the Church & Pastor wish to take.....Personally I would set guidelines & prove everything through Scriptures. Tongues are the least of the gifts & should have no place in the church worship & operation. Id cap it down pretty tight but I would not quench the HS by mandating that gifts are forbidden. I personally believe these things & would look to provide guidelines to churches who also do.

BTW, Martyn Lloyd-Jones also believed thus & he was a strict Calvinist. I never saw the Westminster Chapel becoming charismatic under his time there.

 

EWF.....not afraid...just believe the bible.
Look at what jf is saying....

to his credit...he rules out word of faith heretics

ewf....if gifts were meant to continue, they would have....they ceased

most people who hold out for continuation are believing the falsehood.....that they have a special prayer tongue[you know, the one satan cannot understand.....lol] it is not happening....

ewf.... God has given all we need in the word.

 

The majority of people in my church believe in divine healing, and have no problem asking God to heal sick folks.

What we don't believe is that individual has the gift of healing. Anyone who claims to have it better be able to heal every time, or he's a fake. Or, his gift is not from God.

That said, since our church does not practice the "gifts," I'd try to run off anybody who wants to speak in tongues, or claims to have the healing gift. If a church allows such stuff from a few individuals in the name of diversity, it's asking for trouble. It will split that church wide open.

I fully anticipate somebody here on the BB will cite a case where the "gifts" were allowed, and didn't split. I'm telling you, I've seen it happen. More than once.

 

Tom, with all due respect, I think you totally misunderstand the allowing thing. Only the HS provides any of the gifts & that said nobody has a constant gift. IE the HS gives at will & takes away just as quickly. So nobody is the "Healer" of the church or the resident sooth sayer with any magical properties. As I said before, If you were to read Martyn Lloyd-Jones book, "Joy Unspeakable" your fears would be put to rest.