Paige Patterson "Takes the Hill!" @ SWBTS

Um... for the purposes of the discussion, okay:

gos⋅sip  [gos-uhp] Show IPA noun, verb, -siped or -sipped, -sip⋅ing or -sip⋅ping.
–noun
You used the noun, so the following definitions apply:

It's not idle talk since Paige Patterson's institution has devoted a whole Web page to his sermon detailing the events, with photos of Patterson in front of the attack vehicle with the M2 Browning machine gun behind him.

Just because you declare it doesn't mean you are right. In fact, you are quite wrong. Again.

I have not declared any such thing. However you have borne false witness against me (again) by claiming I have hatred for those in the "conservative resurgence."

You are the one who apparently doesn't know the meaning of words.

 

None of which proves your gossip is anything other than that.

It is a fact. You were not involved, you did not suffer from the scenario this worthless complaint just makes you a busy body.

And I quote: "It makes Baptists look like lunatics. " So you did declare that.

uh huh

uh-huh

 

You are very good at denying realities that don't happen to fit your argument. If you are being honest with your assertion, you are deeply immersed in self-deception.

So if this is the definition of being a busybody, then you are one of the biggest busybodies on BaptistBoard! How many threads have you STARTED blasting other denominations, political events in states other than Florida, and concerning events where you were not present?

If you have expressed an honest opinion, then you really need to repent of extensive a profound hypocrisy in this area.




And I quote: "It makes Baptists look like lunatics. " So you did declare that.



uh huh




uh-huh[/QUOTE]

 

O.K.: People want big fancy "shows" instead of simple ole' preaching. Paul, Peter and the apostles didn't drive chariots up to the upper room, waving a sword around. In fact, they literally preached people to sleep!

A .50 caliber gun has nothing to do with the gospel. And you can't MAKE IT have anything to do with the gospel. Next, why don't have two people fornicate on stage, to demonstrate how "Not to do abstinence"? It's silly, it brings shame on the name of Christ, and it brings bile to my throat.

Turning the "power of God unto salvation", into a circus side show, should sicken any believer. Why doesn't this bother you?

 

I find myself more in agreement with Havensdad than others here. First, I'm not one of these "Patterson does it, therefore, it must be evil" folks. Some people would criticize him for giving food to a hungry child with AIDS. That said, I disagree with a lot of Patterson's heavily Armininan soteriology and his hefty lefty dispensational eschatology.

Gimmicks have replaced the gospel. Preaching has been replaced by side-show antics. Instead of relying on the Word and Spirit, we rely on the crafty devices of humans to play to emotions and get them to respond to some sort of invitation, public or not. And this is no recent device. In my suburb, this week there will be no less than 12 singings or Southern Gospel concerts at churches in this area. Pathetic.

Before you throw rocks at me, yes, I use PowerPoint and I use illustrations (I'm not John MacArthur, after all). But notice the focus...it wasn't on exegetical peraching and application. It was on the getup Paige used. Of course, that's Paige. He's over the top on everything. If you've been in his office, you know what I mean. Could you imagine Mohler doing something like this? No. Why? He doesn't have to.

I applaud Patterson's zeal for evangelism. I wish it was geared towards strenthening churches to fulfil their missionary call. Patterson is incredibly gifted and has a voice that needs no microphone. He is capable of good exposition. He's better than this.

That said, I pray we hear that thousands come legitimately to Christ and become devoted Christ -ollowers, flooding evangelical churches in the Fort Worth area.
Rom 1:16 says it best:

 

Dr. Patterson looks like he has taken a page or two from Billy Sunday's antics.

 

Well this is indicative of his style since getting to SWBTS. He's been over the top and brash in dealing with a number of issues.

I enjoy talking with Dr. Patterson from time to time and appreciate his desire to see lives changed through salvation. Yet his common sense has left the building on this issue.

 

Maybe I missed something but I failed to read of any discipleship plan to develop mature men and women of God who make disciples.

 

Do you wonder about BP News too?

 

I love it! What a creative way to make a point. I bet those present for the service will forever remember the "antic" and the point that was made, i.e., the importance of sharing the gospel.

If there is anything I would disagree with, it is door-to-door things. A discussion of this method of evangelism is not relevant to this thread, so I will leave it at that.

 

The video can be seen at http://www.swbts.edu/dashboard.cfm?dateString=20090903&dateToLoad=September 03, 2009

 

L

Have you watched the chapel service? Take time to do so if you have not here:
http://www.swbts.edu/dashboard.cfm?dateString=20090903&dateToLoad=September 03, 2009


I must give Dr. Patterson an A Plus in leadership and this is an excellent chapel service. Do you disagree with any of the content of the message? Complaining about an illustration is no different form a member of a church taking issue of the color of the carpet and a host of other reasons just to complain.

 

It is good that we can share our opinions because this is exactly what you have done. Mohler would not have a seat at the table if it were not for Dr. Patterson. Do you understand that? If not then watch the chapel service here and see what Dr. Mohler has to say about Dr. Patterson and if you are going to speak for either then perhaps you should consult them on what you have to offer before you so freely miss-represent both.

http://www.swbts.edu/dashboard.cfm?dateString=20090910&dateToLoad=September 10, 2009

 

While I think he gave an impacting message with the right motives I would certainly question his message in terms of its agreement with scripture. I see little resemblance with what he preached and what Jesus taught when He commanded His disciples to make disciples. When Jesus taught evangelism to his disciples he sent them out two by two. He did not send them out until it was time.

There are many evangelistic efforts that are failures but making disciples has the greatest investment in the lives of others but the greatest pay off in terms of teaching and the gospel being carried by those who have been discipled.

True leadership is not telling people to go into battle but training and preparing them for the task and then leading them into battle.

Jesus met with 12 and one was a failure. We are Christians today not just because He said to do something but because he showed the way and He trained His disciples giving them the vision. Mature Christians will make disciples. Those who makes disciples also do evangelism. Not all of those who do evangelism makes disciples. Billy Graham recognized that early on in his ministry. That is the reason why he asked Dawson Trotman do lead in follow up.

Focusing on evangelism only is much like focusing on making babies. Focusing on making disciples is also focused on making babies but the difference is that discipleship is also focused on making mature believers who live the Christian life.

 

There is no training of the lost, but the saved. What you posit is to train the saved that is noble. What you posit is that the seminary students are not trained enough to be a witness. Hear me clear: Can you list all in the hearing of Dr. Patterson that was not a believer for at least three years? When did you acquire the ability to be God and have the omniscience to make such an evaluation of these mostly young people so that you are able to make the kind of judgment you make?

What did Paul tell young timothy? Do the work of an evangelist. Who are you to make such a judging evaluation that those how heard the message were not capable in God's plan of leading the lost to Christ and guiding them to a church or bible study or even mentoring them themselves. Let’s face it you don't have that power or ability and therefore such wondering of speech is not only wanting but revealing.
Regards
Benefactor

 

What did Jesus do with His disciples? He taught more wisdom than all of the Christians combined today. I see no need to circumvent what He taught and modeled, and rush His ways. His ways work.

While I agree with you in being a witness. All Christians are witnesses. Some are bad and some are great. Just because one is a witness does nothing to ensure that they know how to make or are making disciples. Jesus who being God was not just a witness, but He made disciples at the same time and that is my point.

If you have ever studied the life and ministry of Jesus and made any disciples you would know the answer to your question. The Christian life is far more than just making babies and just new converts. It is also about making mature healthy Christians who are able to reproduce themselves in the lives of others.

Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, God had His word penned for us to guide us and follow. Jesus himself taught to make disciples and even provided the methodology and example. Is there any better instruction and command than that under the sun?

Who discipled Timothy? When did Jesus send His disciples out two by two? On the first day of following Jesus? He took them with Him. The followed Him and went with him in doing ministry. When did Jesus ever stand before a crowd and kick them verbally telling them they should evangelize. You discipled them on a daily basis.

If studied the life of Jesus and was following Him in what He taught by making disciples then you would know the answer to your question. Those in the seminary are training to be church leaders. They should be leading those they lead to Christ not just guiding them to a church or Bible study.

Could you explain?

 

Patterson is there to lead in the training of leaders who are already there, not just be a cheerleader to them. The real issue is, what is going on at the local level. Most of those who graduate will do as they have been taught and modeled. That will be at a local level.

I agree. He is the example.

The proof is in the pudding not in what is said. A small part of what Jesus did was evangelism. If every believer who came to Christ were discipled that would be each one who is capable of leading others whether it be in a big or small way but they would be making more disciples who reproduce their life in the lives of others. I believe the vast majority of leaders in churches today are misled into thinking their job is to just evangelize and win people Christ. Yet they have not discipled anyone. It is about numbers too. Each number is a soul. Multiplication yields far greater number in a few years than addition. If one person made one disciple every two years over a period of 48 years and each person madeone disciple every two years there would be16777216 disciples who are capable of reproducing themselves in the lives of others. If one were to lead 957 people to Christ every day for 48 years they would have the same number reached who were Christians, but none would be capable of spiritual reproduction.

I agree with you about Patterson but the real work is done day by day in the trenches with men and women who lack whatever it is to get beyond their fears and doubts. I disagree with what he suggests is the real answer to building believers. We are to encourage and exhort one another daily. While I was in seminary I met with men and women to train them to make disciples. Even after seminary I met with pastors to train them to do evangelism and discipleship. I think most people know they should do evangelism and discipleship but they need someone who will lead the way. A few years ago I took a young man into the community and taught him how to do evangelism in the community where we lived. He was an ordained deacon and an excellent teacher in the church, but I saw him shake in fear just before I took him into the community for his first time. After two hours he was a changed man. When he did it himself, within one day on his own he had enough people to start two Bible studies. He started two Bible studies in that church. We met weekly so he could be encouraged and learn to deal with questions and training. We became good friends who often did ministry together. We each had one another to lift each other up. he knew he should be doing evangelism and there were times when he expressed that in a passive way. So I decided to ask him to go with me.

A friend of mine once worked on an oil rig in the ocean and he tells the story of complaining to God about the fact that none of the men were Christians. So he began witnessing to them and within a few weeks he led a number if them to Christ and everyone person joined in the Bible studies he led. Within a short amount of time he loads of fellowship 24/7. They went out for two weeks at a time. Tha is what every Christian needs to be equipped to do. Every Chrisitan needs to be able to live out their faith and make disciples in whatever situation God places them. That does not happen through sermons and weekly Bible studies. It happens on a personal level.

When I consider Heb. 3:12, 13 that is personal not just a once a week sermon or Sunday School.