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Papacy = Beast or Woman?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by GraceSaves, Jun 13, 2003.

  1. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

    Mar 15, 2002
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    Sorry for making a new thread on this, but it's a different question, and hopefully this won't need to go 30 pages to have it answered.

    For those who believe that the Catholic Church is apostate...who do you say that the beast is in Revelation? Is the "beast" Satan? If not, what symbol represents Satan, at least, in the sections regarding this apostate church.

    And who is the woman ("whore" or "harlot")? Is she the church? The papacy/pope?

    Basically, in summation,

    What symbol represents Satan?

    Who is the beast?

    Who is the harlot?

    God bless, and hopefully we can make this short. [​IMG]

  2. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

    Mar 15, 2002
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    Just so there is no accusation of deceit or something, know that I sincerely ask this. I am quite confused.

    It seems sometimes the "harlot" is referred to the church, and the "beast" to the papacy. And sometimes the "beast" is the pope, and the "harlot" is the church. And then sometimes the beast is Satan, and the harlot is the pope.

    It seems like people use the images interchangeably with Catholic elements, and yet still come out with the same results, which is not logically possible.

    For instance, (and I know a lot of you reject Jack Chick's work), in his latest tract, he shows a picture of Satan overtaking "the beast," and that beast is a Catholic priest. And yet, the "harlot" rides the "beast," but it makes no sense for the Church to be riding on the pope (since the pope would have to be riding on the beast to make sense).

    Anyway, it seems like it doesn't even matter to some people which one stands for which. Hopefully someone can give me a definitive answer on what the beast and what the harlot is, when referring to the Catholic Church.

    God bless,

  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Oct 24, 2001
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    That's easy. Jack Chick!!!
  4. MikeS

    MikeS New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
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    That's easy. Jack Chick!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Guess that about wraps up this thread! [​IMG] [​IMG]
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Jul 13, 2000
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    There are two beasts mentioned in Revelation 13, not just one. One of them is referred to as the man of sin, the anti-christ, and is controlled entirely by Satan. He is the first beast and arises out of the sea. He is described in Revelation 13:1-10.

    13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    The second beast arises out of the land, and is the leader of a great religious system, the one world church of the Tribulation Period. This beast is known as the false prophet. He is described in verses 11-15. Though some have identified the Catholic Church with the antichrist, I believe more have identified it with the false prophet for these reasons:
    1. It has all the power of the first beast and will cause all to worship him. He (the antichrist) will eventually proclaim himself as god anyway). (13:12)

    2. He does great wonders (miracles), even causing fire to come down from Heaven (13:13) There are many, even today, that claim such miracles—especially among Charismatic circles.

    3. He will make an image of the beast, give life to the image, and cause all to worship it.

    The false prophet’s description is continued in chapter 17.
    4. She is the whore who has committed fornication with the kings of the earth. (17:2)
    --This is the mixing of religion and politics. No one has done this more than the Catholic Church. The present pope has entertained more heads of states than any previous pope in history.

    5. ch.17:4 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    --This pictures the great wealth of the Catholic Church. Look at the golden chalice that she holds in her hand. Again there is the reference of the horrible deeds that she has committed, some in the name of politics.

    6. verse 5-- 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    --She is the Mother of Harlots. From her came many other apostate religions.

    7. verse 6-- 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    --The Catholic Church throughout history has persecuted more believers than any other religion. She has the blood of the martyrs of Jesus on her hands.

    8. verse 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    --The seven heads are seven mountains. Is it not interesting that Rome sits on seven hills (or mountains) as the KJV has it translated. The word also means hills.

    These are some of the many reasons why so many consider the false prophet the Catholic Church, or the pope of the Catholic Church.
  6. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Seems to me that The Dragon represents satan in the same way the serpent represented deceit or evil in the Garden. It is the dragon that attempts to eat the infant coming from the woman. The woman could very well be Israel. The Beast it seems is a political system with great power granted by the ten kings who bow down to it. The european common market alliance or a Baltic region alliance, or even the USSR that was, is dead, and will rise again.
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
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    Non Baptist Christian
    Rev 12 - the Dragon vs the Pure Woman

    The Woman is the Church in every age. Pre-cross that is the ONE TRUE Hebrew Nation-Church but Post-Cross it is the true Christian Church.

    The Dragon is "Satan" who literaly fights a war in heaven and takes with him 1/3 of the Angels.

    It is also pagan Rome - the power that literally tried to kill Christ at his birth.

    It is also pagan Rome that tried to kill the Christians after the resurrection of Christ.

    And ultimately it merges into the power the existed for 1260 years after the Christian church was established - that also was killing the saints - until the Earth ITSELF provided a home for them across the ocean.

    Rev 13 the Two Beasts

    The first beast represents a composit of the four beasts of Daniel in Dan 7 but the order is reversed because John is looking back on a historical sequence to describe the first beast of Rev 13 and Daniel was looking forward in time.

    The first beast comes out of the sea (a symbol that is defined as many nations tongues and peoples - Europe Rev 17:15)
    - it receives its power from Pagan Rome (Rev 13:4) once you identify the Dragon in Rev 12 with Satan and with the civil power - Pagan Rome and look for the power that Pagan Rome turned its power over to - Many view this as the Papal Rome.

    The 2nd beast of Daniel 13 - comes to power after the 1260 years (the dark ages) of persecution of Christians (in Rev 12) and after deadly wound of the Papacy is received (Rev 13:3-5) (1798 the Holy Roman Empire all but came to halt).

    The second beast eventually dominates the planet. And plays a key role in advancing some aspects of the first beast in Rev 13.

    It starts off pure - speaking as a lamb. Some see this as the United States with the two lamb-like horns being its republican form of government and its protestant idea of freedom of religion.

    Rev 17 - the impure woman and compromise with the Kings of the earth.

    Sits on seven hills. Rome is known as "The City of Seven Hills".

    Is called "Babylon" a name that Peter also gives to Rome (1 Pet 5:13)

    It is called an impure woman - James 4:4 describes one of the pure churches - as an "Adulteress" because it was in compromise with the world. The impure woman is a description of a pure church - in compromise.

    Many see this as another reference to the Papacy. It is also seen in Rev 17 to be a persecuting power drunk with the blood of the saints and it apparently leads other churches into error as well.

    In Christ,