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Party Spirit still rages...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Baptist Briders believe only the absolutely orthodox (which would be Baptists, of course) will be the Bride and enjoy that relationship with Christ, although other Christians will be saved and receive eternal life as "guests" at the wedding.

    Baptist Briders are a tiny minority of Baptists in general and of Landmark Baptists in particular, lest all Landmarkers should be tarred with the Baptist Brider brush.
     
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Or, as the 1689 London Baptist Confession put it::

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  3. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

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    It may be, that there are some churches called Landmark Baptist that were established on Landmarkism doctrine, but they no longer hold to Landmarkism. It may be that there are some churches called Landmark who just picked that name and never held to Landmarkism.

    However, many (not a minority) of the churches who call themselves Landmark Baptist, hold to the teaching that only legitimate Baptist churches are valid New Testament churches, and that all other religious gatherings and assemblies are not valid New Testament churches. They do not consider all Baptist churches to be legitimate, only those who agree with them doctrinally. They teach that the Bride can only consist of those who belong to a true Baptist Church. Thus the term Baptist Bride.

    Baptist Briders are certainly a small minority among Baptists, but I must argue that they represent the greater part of those churches who call themselves Landmark Baptist. This same teaching may also be found in BMA churches that do not bare Landmark in their name. I do not know if Baptist Bride doctrine is consistent among BMA churches, but I know of several who hold to this doctrine.
     
  4. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This is undoubtedly basic Landmark teaching.

    While this may be a logical conclusion, I am not sure that it necessarily follows from Landmark tenets.

    I would have to bow to your experience on this point, not knowing personally many Landmarkers.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Most of you are turning up your noses at the Baptist Bride idea and Landmarkism in genereal, and some of you don't have a clue about either one of them.

    I'm not a Baptist Brider but I understand the rationale behind it. So does rsr.

    The issue here is what constitutes a true New Testament church. I think a Baptist Church is most like those of the first century. If that's true, then most others don't qualify. Is a pedobaptist body, one which teaches baptismal regeneration, one which teaches the possibility of apostasy, a NT church?

    Is a group which rejects the deity of Christ a NT church? Of course not. Is a group which teaches that Mary is a Co-redemptrix with her son a NT church?

    Now there are some true believers in those groups, but they are not true churches.

    If Baptists are not the nearest thing to a NT church, why aren't we out there looking for the real thing?

    Ah, some of you will say, Baptists are not perfect, we're not right on everything. Okay, what doctrine to we have wrong?

    For those of you who wonder why some folks get bent out of shape over Landmarkism, here it is: The proposition that the Scriptures know nothing of a Universal Church; that the Bible speaks only of local congregations, or at best speaks of the church in a generic, institutional or prospective sense.

    Some will question the idea of Baptist successionism, citing what they believe to weak or non-existent evidence from history. But the main objection is to the idea that the Universal Church does not exist, and if it does, it is the poorest excuse for a church that ever existed.
     
  6. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

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    Baptist Bride

    No, of course not. However, there are other churches who hold to sound doctrine, that Briders disavow. The Briders that I have encountered are very prideful and arrogant and spent more time and energy bashing other churches than they do evangelizing the lost.

    Absolutely, I agree.

    Baptist do not corner the market on this. There are other assemblies, that may be baptistic in sound doctrine, but vary in practice. Does that mean they are not valid NT churches? Some are so disgusted with the in-fighting among Baptists, they establish a local church without denominational affiliation. They believe the Book, they love the Lord, they serve him the best way they know how. Yet, Briders in their pride and arrogance would refuse to acknowledge them as a New Testament Church.

    Some Baptists are Calvinistic; some are not; some believe in Lordship salvation, some do not; some believe in washing feet as an ordinance, some do not; some believe only some Baptists are the Bride, some do not; some are King James Only, some are not; et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Baptists vary greatly in doctrine and practice, this board bares great testimony to the fact. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong and they are all Baptists.

    Somebody told a Primitive Baptist preacher, "You Baptists are so narrow minded you think only Baptists are going to heaven". He responded back, "I'm more narrow minded than that, I don't think half the baptists are going".
     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    They they are disobeying the scriptures.


    Then the Briders who do this are wrong again, and forget that the Landmarkism from their view comes specifically holds that our spiritual ancesters were known by other names.


    I'm basically referring to the distinctive doctrines which, taken together, identify one as a Baptist. None of these you mentioned are on that list.

    Unfortunately, this is so, more practice than doctrine. There are some who claim the name of Baptists whom I wish would pick something else.
     
  8. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

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    Amen, Amen, Amen. It is a sad but true commentary on the apostasy of churches.

    Now that would be an interesting experiment. Post a list of Baptist Distinctives, and see how long it would take before somebody on this board would disagree with one of the points. I would be amazed if every Baptist on this board was in complete agreement.:eek:

    I double dog dare you!:laugh:
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    No need to dare me, just ask. And I suspect you'll be right about the disagreement.

    The list is not long, and mainly revolves around the correct view of baptism (which is why people called us the Baptizers, or Baptists.

    First is the doctrine of the baptism of believers only.

    Then, baptism as an ordinance, non-sacramental, as both a picture of the gospel and our own conversion experience.

    Then, baptism by immersion.

    Salvation by grace alone through repentance and faith.

    Eternal security.

    The Lord's Supper as a non-sacramental ordinance.

    I'm sure several mainline denominations hold to many of these doctrines, but only Baptists hold them all. And to the extent that any denomination or congregation does not hold them all, they are in error.

    If you outlined these doctrines, all taken together, one would say, "well, that's a Baptist."

    I know about some who call themselves Baptist who do not hold all these doctrines, such as Free-Will Baptists, General Baptists, Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Presdestinarian Baptists, etc. They are the kinds I wish would call themselves something different.
     
  10. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

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    No, no, that don't count, you have to post it in a new thread with the title baptist distinctives, so it will get people's attention, I don't think very many are following this thread.
     
  11. belvedere

    belvedere Member

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    We recently left the church we'd been in since 2001. The pastor has some real problems, and God told me in very clear terms that we were not to be under his leadership any longer.

    Anyway, this pastor has a habit of "bashing" other denominations, from the pulpit, and he does this on a regular basis. A week ago, at a church we visited, we were blessed to hear a very good, Bible-based sermon. One of the points that the pastor made was that anyone who trusts Jesus as their Savior is our brother or sister in Christ. We may not agree with everything their church teaches, but if we agree on how to be saved, that is what really matters in the end.

    After we left that service, we talked about how our former pastor needed to hear that sermon!
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    A good idea. This thread is all over the lot, anyway.
     
  13. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    The new thread on Baptist Distinctives is up.

    We probably should really have a separate thread on Landmarkism, too.
     
  14. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Who are you to say I haven't ?
    You're past the line of arrogance in what you preume.
    Just let anyone look at your advertising for the Presbyterians and how you attack Baptists. I will retract nothing.
    You're paranoid.
    I made no comparison and your statement is therefore a lie. You were the one who made the claim for catholicity.
     
  15. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Rebuke all you want, but to edify is best.
     
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    RB, I just noticed this one.

    Thanks for this one. It seems like we talk a better unity than we live one. Just a thought!
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I am reposting this because it seems it was missed:

    If you scroll back a few pages you will see it. I made this thread, honestly, out of frustration. It is a case of being right when I am wrong. Meaning this: I am correct in opposing a party spirit which is obnoxious and anti-christian. But I was wrong to give to such a harsh rebuke about it to salamander. I did not do it in the right spirit and for that I made the above post to apologize. I would hope you would forgive me salmander.

    I do say that I love my Presbyterian brethren. Our Baptist church had the opportunity to have a joint service with Grace Presbyterian which is holding the conference I mentioned and we shared the Lord's Table together. It was a wonderful and God glorifying time. We serve the same the Lord and preach the same Gospel. There are significant differences that keep us separate in a sense, but we are of the One body with them as we are with all who love the Lord Jesus from a pure heart. It is this kind of catholicity that I believe honors Christ and fulfills the law of love. We are to have love for our brethren.

    RB
     
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