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Featured Pastor Francis Chan

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Church history being one of the concentrations in my doctorate, I would have to disagree with you. And there is one group of Baptists, although small, who hold the seemingly contradictory tenets of 5-point Calvinism and Universalism.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am not a Calvinist and I don't believe this has anything to do with Calvinism. Belief in hell is a vital doctrine.
    Belief in universalism is a heresy.

    In church history we had the particular Baptists which were Calvinistic, and the general Baptists which were not.
    Both believed in the eternal damnation of the wicked.
     
  3. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    FYI, I didn't say you were Calvinist.

    The small group of Baptists I was referring to are the Primitive Baptist Universalists, often referred to as the "no-hellers".
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    OK, that is a sect in itself, and most mainline Baptists probably wouldn't associate with them because of their doctrinal aberrations.
     
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Don't worry EWF! I do believe that your wife will enjoy Chan's book. Which one is she reading?
     
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure "eternal damnation" would necessarily exclude annihilation.

    But back to Chan, It sounds as though you would reject anything this man has to preach or teach about simply because he waffles a bit on the issue of annihilation. That really doesn't sound like a fair judgment to me. Now if he said, as many do, there is no real hell, then I wouldn't give him any time on other subjects niether, even if he was right on in other areas. But that is a judgment call we all have to make, and i suppose answer for one day.
     
    #26 steaver, Apr 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2013
  7. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    And their view on hell is what makes them a "sect" in your mind, even though they are orthodox Primitive Baptists otherwise? IMO, it would take more than that one belief to make them a sect.

    It's been a long time ago, but seems I can remember that what got this started was that a PB minister lost his son, he didn't know if the boy had accepted Jesus, and he couldn't reconcile the idea of a loving God punishing him forever in hell. I can understand how he felt, and I'll leave it at that.
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I often use the word "sect" rather loosely for want of a better term, almost identical to "kinds." There are many different "kinds" of Baptists, or even sects. I don't always use it as synonymous with "cult." And I don't like the word "denomination" when speaking of Baptists because in essence they are not a denomination. So the word "sect" was not meant to be offensive, just practical.

    I don't know about the salvation of some of my relatives either (who have already died). I have my doubts about their salvation, but ultimately their salvation is in God's hand. Maybe they did trust Christ before they died. I must leave that in God's hands. I will never know for sure. But I am not going to beat myself up about it, nor will I change my doctrine over it.

    I know you believe that one could lose their salvation. There are Baptists that take that position, and I can live with that. But I have never known a Baptist to be a universalist. As one has said heaven would not be heaven if the likes of Hitler and Stalin were there to fellowship with. And God would not be just. Eternal life demands an eternal death for a just God.
     
  9. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Thank you for explaining.
     
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