Pastor in combat?

I served 4 yr navy and 6 yr Nat'l Guard. A saved man and willing to serve the nation and government which God ordained. It is not a contradiction to serve your country AND be a witness for Christ. My pastor was a member of the 82nd Airborn.

 

Yes, I would be. I'd be especially concerned with soldiering for the reasons stated already, but any government paid job by a pastor would be a conflict of interest.

Why is a pastor different? He simply is. I don't go with the current thoughts in churches that pastors and members all have the same requirements and such. A pastor is called out and reserved to concentrate on leading God's people, and yes I said LEADING. (isn't that terrible ) If you're going to seek a dangerous job and you've been called, seek a job that will put you in danger for Christ's work, not that of man.
I find it embarassing when pastors have to seek part time employment in America to make ends meet anyhow. Either the church in their area isn't doing their job or the pastor isn't where he's supposed to be. I haven't met one pastor who's said "God called me to be a pastor 20 hours a week, and a police officer the other 20". If they did I don't think I'd believe them!
If certain special circumstances exist, such as one who fills in at local churches, new church that can't fulfill their duties to their pastor, etc., then seek a job that doesn't cause your judgment to be questioned.
Gina

 

All one need do is look at the examples of Joshua and David. They were righteous before they ever went into combat. And we can't ignore Jehu, whom God COMMANDED to whack Ahab's family.

Some will say, "But JESUS changed all that!" But they forget it was JESUS who appeared to Josh as captain of the Lord's army, and that He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

When some soldiers asked John the Baptist what they needed to do in order to "live right"(I assume they were Romans, serving as local police) he did NOT tell them not to kill in combat; he told them not to oppress, not to steal. and to be content with their pay.(A common custom in the "boonies" of the Roman Empire was to pay "protection money" to the local garrison which was serving as the area police force.)

We must not forget that many around the world do not like us because they're jealous, or don't like Christianity...and that they'd have no scruples about popping caps at us. We see examples of this in Iraq. OUR forces are careful not to fire on anyone who hasn't been clearly identified as an enemy, while the insurgents set off bombs & shoot into crowds, labeling it "To Whom It May Concern". killing friend & foe alike. I can see nothing wrong with using all deadly force against such enemies. I see nothing wrong with identifying and destroying such enemies before they can perform their intended acts of terror.

 

I dont see the conflict of interests. I had a pastor who served in Desert Storm. I never heard one word about it in a negative light.

 

Are all of you pastors who are willing to take up arms willing to do so in any war, just or unjust?

 

Name one.

 

StraightAndNarrow - who determines whether a war is just or unjust? What is the standard that you apply? In WWII the Nazi's and the Japanese Militarists had decided that what they did was just for various reasons - obviously other nations disagreed. In the current conflict you have the same disparity in viewpoints (a radical Muslim militant sees the current war as unjust, while the former victims of Saddam's regime sees this war as liberating). Bruce

 

Well I know one thing. When them muslim martyrs get thier paridise they're gonna get beat up real bad by 70 Virginians.

 

Gina, I don't think we have to worry very much about pastors being full time police officers as law enforcement is a profession that works 24/7. I would have no problem with a pastor being a reserve law enforcement officer. I have a pastor friend that worked several years as a court baliff. In Texas a baliff must be a certified peace officer & carry a sidearm. After his church became large enough to support him he quit his baliff job.

When I was a seminary student a fellow student was a Ft. Worth Police officer, & another was a Plano officer. They went to school during the day and worked evenings.

I led a local officer to the Lord in his cruiser during a ride-a-long. He in turn led his two brothers to Christ, one of which is a detective in a neighboring city. They have each led their wives and children to the Lord. They are now ministering to their parents to win them to the Lord. Eddie wants to teach in a local Christian school when he retires from the PD.

I was a police officer before accepting God's call to the ministry and I know many Christian officers. I know one who had to kill (or be killed) a man. After the initial shooting investigation ended & he was allowed to go home the first person he called was his pastor. He stayed on the force for a couple more years (until he finished his BS in Criminal Justice) and then joined the FBI.

I see law enforcement as a noble calling as much as a pastor, a youth or music minister or a physician. You see Gina, "To Protect and Serve" is not just some cliche painted on the side of a cruiser. It means to serve the community by being willing to work all hours in all kinds of weather, to give up being with family and friends for Christmas, Thanksgiving, and birthdays, and anniversaries. To give up being at your daughters high school graduation if the job calls. It means to protect the helpless, to go without sleep for days to rescue a two year old girl from a well, to step between a husband and his wife when he is in a rage & beating her senseless, to go up against drug dealers and gang members who would think nothing of killing him or even you to protect their income & freedom. It means putting his life on the line everytime he walks out his front door. And yes it means taking another human's life to protect his own or the life of another. 99% of the time we only think of the cop as the guy or gal who just wrote us a traffic citation. But there is much much more to the job that we don't see. How bout the officer that bawls his eyes out over a dead baby that he pulled from a wreck, or a 10 year old girl that has been brutally beaten & raped? Oh you don't see that on the 6 o'clock news. You see he is to big, too brave, too macho. He sits in his cruiser, away from the cameras & reporters & sobs. He goes into a restroom & wretches his guts out or puts his fist through the wall, or punches a dent in his locker back at HQ.

As for soldiers, we hear of a young Marine who shot a wounded Iraqi insurgent in a Mosque and all the other bad things of war on CBS, ABC, NBC, & CNN. But they don't tell us that the insurgents fired upon the Marines & then ran back into the mosque as "sanctuary". They don't tell us about the wounded insurgents that have guns and grenades hidden under their bodies and then at the right time use those weapons to kill our troops. They don't tell us of the electric service restored, the phone lines restored, the hospitals reopened and stocked, the schools reopened and kept safe, all by by our Armed Forces. They too are protecting and serving the Iraqi people who have for so long been oppressed by a crazed dictator. Sometimes that means they have to kill or be killed. Do you think God would have His people ignore the social, moral and illegal injustices suffered by the helpless people of the world? Do you think that He loves those people less than He does you or me? What better opportunity for a Christian soldier to witness to the muslims of Iraq? They will be more apt to listen to the Gospel message from someone who has just brought a truckload of fresh drinking water to their neighborhood, or restored electricity to their home, or stocked their hospital with much needed medical supplies.

 

I feel the majority of the things PastorLynn has listed as an officer of the laws duties should also pertain to Pastors. How many pastors get angry enough to confront drug dealers in their area. How many Pastors care enough about the well being of their flock to put themselves in physical danger for their flock. If the war came here, would the Pastor be the one to defend the town, his family, and his church, or would he let someone else do it?

 

robycop3's 1 Jan 05 posting re John the Baptist's Luke 3:14's message to the soldiers is just the beginning of how the NT viewed soldiers.

Let's take a look at a few centurions (a career Roman military officer who controlled 100 soldiers).

In Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10 Jesus said that this Roman had a greater faith than anyone else in Israel.

In Matthew 27:54, it was a centurion who recognized and publicly proclaimed the deity of Jesus Christ while the 12 Apostles were AWOL.

Then, in Acts 10 we read of how the gospel was first openly preached and received by the gentiles at the home of Cornelius, a centurion.

If serving in the military (and oppressing God's chosen people while doing so) is so inherently sinful, why did the God of the Bible take time to record the fact that these men were centurions?

If it is wrong to be a soldier, why then did Paul:

1) Use the likeness of a combat soldier's ensemble to illustrate for us what God has given to us in order to survive and thrive as Christians? (Ephesians 6:10-19)

2) Commend Epaphroditus to the people in Philippi as a fellowSOLDIER? (Philippians 2:25)

3) Envoke the vivid mental picture of a soldier to Timothy as an illustation of how this young pastor ought to prioritize his life? (II Timothy 2:3-4)

The God who inspired His Word could have easily chosen a "more godly" vocation from which these comparisons were made.....but He didn't.

And, I didn't even mention the sword (a weapon of death) to which Romans 13:5 and Hebrews 4:12 refer, did I?

I challenge any of you to stand in the middle of any military cemetery and boldly, openly proclaim that every last one of the Christian men and women whose remains are beneath your feet that what they did was something for which they will positively lose rewards and the reason why they are here in the first place is because of God's chastening hand upon them.

What? No takers?

We have the freedom to make these very postings criticizing whom or what we may because of their service and sacrifice, and, yes, many of them were "Men of God."

[ January 04, 2005, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: ktn4eg ]

 

AMEN!! Preach on Bro. ktn4eg!!

 

I would be happy to serve in the armed forces, but it would have to be as a non-combatant. Chaplin, medical services, etc.. This is not rooted in distrust or dislike for the armed forces, I respect what they do greatly. But I cannot say that I would be able to "pull a trigger" in anything other then a clear self-defense situation. The armed forces have a job to do which by the very nature will demand that they at times go looking for the fight, so to speak.

I will pray for them, respect them and will do what I can to support them, but as a non-combatant.

 

BTW I have a friend that was asked by a federal agency to train as a member of an elite law enforcement team. He turned them down. As a community law enforcement officer, everyday he goes out to protect and serve the community, which can be at very dangerous, but not always. As a member of a special forces/ sniper-type squad, there is only one reason they call you, to go and shoot someone. He didn't think he could do that if that was his only job. I guess everyone has some sort of limits.

 

go2church--

Yes, everyone does have his limits.

Hopefully you or none of your family has never been held hostage for hours at gun point by a drug-crazed maniac.

We all like to think that, "Well, I know I'd never...." Unless you are actually faced with a real situation, neither you nor I know what we'd do.

A close friend of mine's cousin, Shannon Smith Wright, had to make that decision a few years back in the school yard of that Jonesboro, AR, middle school.

Would she duck and hide to protect the life of her unborn child and remain alive for her husband and other children?

Or would she shelter those helpless students of hers as the shots rang out?

She chose the latter.

After it was over, and still in shock and disbelief, one by one each of her sixth grade students told the media that interviewed them, "Mrs. Wright wasn't just my teacher....she was my friend! She was ALWAYS there to listen to my problems and to encourage me and to pray with me over them."

You probably know what is on her headstone:

"Greater love has no one than this, that a person lay down his life for his friends."
---John 15:13

 

So you're claiming that the U.S. has never been involved in an unjust war? From my perspective, I'd probably have to name the Spanish-American war, Viet Nam, and the current Iraq war. When you can't come up with a valid (and truthful) reason for invading another country the war is unjust.

 

So you're claiming that the U.S. has never been involved in an unjust war? From my perspective, I'd probably have to name the Spanish-American war, Viet Nam, and the current Iraq war. When you can't come up with a valid (and truthful) reason for invading another country the war is unjust. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know the first thing about the Spanish-American War so I'll have to take your word on that one.

I do know about the Viet Nam War since I was there. The most unjust thing about the VN war was the way it was waged by the politicians back in Washington and the way the American Public treated its soldiers when they returned home.

The current war in Iraq is unjust only if you buy into the argument that George W. Bush Lied about the reasons for going to war. I happen to believe he didn't lie but was misinformed by his security experts at the CIA and NSA. I think that is obvious by the housecleaning that is now going on at the CIA.