1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Paul's Relentless "Calvinism" Drove His Evangelical Effort

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jun 24, 2011.

Top Posters
Page 4 of 5
  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    Spurgeon

    A.W. Pink a very smart man that I would say all he taught was not bad and was an Island to himself and he could learned a lot from Spurgeon if he would listen, that is my conclusion.

    I do not put my stock in election, but in Jesus.

    God elected Israel, but they were cut out not because they were not elected but for unbelief, and He kept those who did not lean on their own understanding but trusted in the Lord. Then He included with them Gentiles that heard the Gospel of their salvation having believed. That the elect are those who trust in the Lord.

    If I have to make my election sure or to trust in the Lord and I will not be put to shame or not disappointed I will choose to trust in the Lord.

    God has set before us life and death through the Gospel so choose Jesus and live.
     
    #61 psalms109:31, Jul 7, 2011
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    The statement you don't put your stock in election but Jesus is quaint, but not theologically accurate, nor does it reflect my comments nor Pauls trust.

    No one is trusting election, but the Elector.

    If you actually would read what was said in my post, it is attributing all of this to trusting in God's leadership first and foremost, to lead us to His elect, not in His doctrine.

    He chose election as His means.

    To put hope in the fact that God has elected, and that His elected are out there, is not placing stock in the elect, but in He who did the electing.

    This is trusting in Him, in knowing Him and how He works. See Genesis 33.

    - Peace
     
    #62 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
  3. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    0
    RC Christians don't like to be told what they believe just like I don't like to be told what I believe. I think I know better what I believe than anyone else. If someone disagrees with me on my actual beliefs in lieu of a false representation of them, then I have no problem with that at all. Ultimately, I think Calvinism has been fairly represented by those who disagree with it here.

    WM

    WM
     
    #63 WestminsterMan, Jul 7, 2011
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    have to decide on just WHAT basis the Lord has decided to base His divine election of the saints upon...

    based On HIS good pleasure and divine Will, or else on us, on our "freewill" response?

    As for me, I MUCH rather have it based upon the Soveirgn Will of God...

    Thats Just me!
     
    #64 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2011
  5. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    0
    And that is a bad thing?
     
    #65 WestminsterMan, Jul 7, 2011
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    No, it is the "best" thing!
    lets give credit to where credit is really due!
     
    #66 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2011
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Paul's Relentless 'Calvinism' Drove His Evangelical Effort"

    Really? This statement is a classic argumentum ad absurdum.

    Did Paul have the Institutes of the Christian Religion approximately 1500 years before they were written?

    Did God inspire the apostle Paul or Calvin?

    We need to focus upon God and His word not man and his words.

    If we find a true interpretation of the word of God by a human being concerning the grace of God, then we need to focus on God not the man.

    HankD
     
    #67 HankD, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trust

    You can see throughout scripture that the elect are those who trusted God and not themselve. They were simple cut out disowned because of unbelief .To God trusting in him is not work, it is acknowledgement of what He has done.

    We are saved by grace because of our debt we don't have to pay. Jesus paid it acknowledgement is not work. To tell the world of what He has done is a praise that God has giving me to give

    Election did not save the Jews because of their unbelief they can be grafted back in if they do not continue in it
     
    #68 psalms109:31, Jul 7, 2011
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "That exalted system of Pauline truth which is tecnically called Calvinism." (John Broadus)
     
    #69 Rippon, Jul 7, 2011
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Apostle paul wrote His theology directly inspired by the Lord, ALL systems regardless if Cals/Arm/other try to "understand/interprete " it

    Cal better than others, but NOT only way, nor the Bible!
     
    #70 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2011
  11. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    I've heard this from you elsewhere. Perhaps you can get to the arguments of the OP and past the title?

    Who said he had the Institutes? Where did we get our belief in election? Scripture, as the one used in the OP, or the Institutes?

    The focus in here is the text, not the title.

    I feel your objective is ad hominem toward the title.

    My focus is on God, not man. I've never mentioned nor have I read The Institutes of the Christian Religion.

    The point is, some would, as you are, when pointing to election mentioned in the passage, cry "Calvinism!"

    Paul didn't have the Institutes, he had the Scriptures from whence they came. "Election" is in my chosen text. Many equate that to Calvinism just at mere mention of the word "chosen" or "elect." Thus the title of the OP.


    - Peace
     
    #71 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
  12. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    Save one of them

    His whole effort was to know Christ and Him crucified.

    That he can get his own people to jealousy so he might save some of them.

    That he himself when He preached would not be disqualified for the prize.

    To fight the good fight.

    That he would work out his salvation with fear and trembling.

    That people will trust in God and not themselves.
     
    #72 psalms109:31, Jul 7, 2011
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    You're still orbiting the text never touching upon it.
     
    #73 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hearty AMEN :thumbs:
     
    #74 webdog, Jul 7, 2011
  15. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    Forgive me then I can't focus on one thing the scripture presents, it isn't good for anyone.I have ADHD and all out of meds
     
    #75 psalms109:31, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    I can empathize with you, our 11 year old son suffers from this.

    I hope you have access to get some meds.

    - Peace
     
    #76 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How many A.W.Pink books have you read in their entirety? Outside the biblical canon Arthur Pink probably quoted Spurgeon more than anyone else in his works. I can think of no other man outside of Dr.D.M.Lloyd-Jones who had more in common with him doctrinally. A.W.P. was the bridge bringing Spurgeon's kind of preaching and theology to the 20th century.

    Here's a memorable line of his:

    How many who now speak of him eulogistically,and refer to him as "the beloved Spurgeon",would gnash their teeth and excrete him were they to hear his faithful and plain-spoken preaching. (Taken from The Doctine Of Election: Its Justice)
     
    #77 Rippon, Jul 7, 2011
  18. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    I like my signature and i see that Spurgeon was talking about people like A.W. Pink.

    I loved the pages of A.W. Pink that you have posted, but when he molds scripture to his doctrine like world and all, me I had to turn away from him. This is how I see it sorry.

    I do not have to trust in Pink and how he sees world and all to be saved , but Jesus.
     
    #78 psalms109:31, Jul 7, 2011
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is a debate forum, not an argument forum.

    Again, that is not my point, your title implies that Paul knew the calvinist doctrine that is found in the Institues. How could his "calvinism" be described as "calvinism" if calvin himself did not exist?

    "Paul's Relentless 'Calvinism' Drove His Evangelical Effort"

    Why not talk about his relentless "Catholicism" seeing he was a paedo-baptiser (baby baptizer) also classifying baptism as a vehicle of grace by assigning it the term "sacrament"?

    To whom, you or Calvin? In any case, that is neither affirmed or denied brother, I am powerless to affect how you perceive it to be.

    Um, you are the one using this phrase in the O/P title question.

    "Paul's Relentless 'Calvinism' Drove His Evangelical Effort"

    If you have never read him why do you use his name?

    HankD
     
    #79 HankD, Jul 7, 2011
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    Debate; to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly:

    It's called a synonym.

    No. You assume all the above. I never once mentioned Paul knew the Institutes. You're getting way off track here. I smell straw. Don't pretend you know my intentions. My intentions were to draw attention to the fact that when one uses the word "elect" one is automatically believed to be Calvinistic, thus for whom (the elect) Paul suffered persecution, it's right there in the text I've used. Thus the OP title with Calvinism in parentheses.


    Amen!!! :thumbsup:

    Now onto the text at hand, or do you stay only with your ad hominem attack on my title, and continue to miss the point altogether, which involves a text associated with Paul and his driving zeal and knowledge of the elect?

    Why concentrate only on what you see as negative?

    Perhaps you should do this and elaborate on your belief here? I don't happen to believe this.

    Because I can? I've read little from him, but much about him. Do you go study about Calvin Klein before you wear his clothes with his name on them? Ralph Lauren? How dare you. Same reasoning, same straw man.


    - Peace
     
    #80 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2011
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 4 of 5
Loading...