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Pentecostal Order of Salvation

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Aug 1, 2020.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    From the devotionals of William Seymour...


    1. The Outer Court - Justification - Faith to enter in.
    2. The Altar - Salvation- if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Roman's 10:9
    3. The Laver - The clean effects of sanctification.
    4. Table of Showbread – Daily into the word of God
    5. Light at the Lightstand - Faith, hope, charity, joy, grace, love, warmth, etc. With sanctification came a sweet spirit!
    6. The Golden Incense Alter - Prayer and Praise meetings.
    7. The Holy of Holies - The Shekinah Glory and Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I post this as I don't hear sanctification talked about much these days.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The placement of sanctification in the order of salvation can make or break the view of OSAS. Hebrews 10:29, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
    So if sanctification takes place after belief and salvation a case is made that OSAS would not be true. (My veiw is sanctification comes before repentance to faith, John 17:17; Romans 10:17; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.)
     
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  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    William Seymour warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

    As far as sanctification he once said....

    "Sanctification makes us pure on the inside." - William Seymour

    I grew up Baptist and our preacher would take us on weekend retreats. I would leave with a clean and pure spirit, indicating to me that the meetings had sanctifying effects.
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What do we do with the verse that says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?Eph 4.30
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    All believers are sanctified ( set apart ) permanently ( positionally) . Daily we want to be practically set apart . The latter cannot effect the former other than our position should encourage us to mature and preach to others the good news .
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I remember the old WW2 generation saints.... Who were much better examples of Sanctification and Spirit filled.

    When we had a plating department in our facility I worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.

    Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!

    "You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"

    And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases religion can inhabit too much personal ego.

    I am currently studying the old South Eastern Methodist revivals...

    The Life of George Clark Rankin

    In my denomination, Pentecostal Holiness (PH), the revivals were like the Methodist before us, just subtract 100 years. The pH revivals in the 1950's were exactly like the Methodist in the 1850's.In studying the old Methodist Cripple Creek revival I find our Pentecostal Holiness church was structured exactly like their meetings. As the Methodist revivals dissipated around 1900 so ours did around 2000. I have traveled Wythe County up and down and the only soul that remembers the Cripple Creek revival was a gentleman in his 90's, and he gave me recollections of what his mother told him.

    The apostle Paul says that just a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Just a little ego, and the whole lump is bad! When our evangelists were uneducated they were good as you would never know what they would pull out of the Word of God. Send them to Seminary, and they come out with an ego, and tend to be dry in their delivery.

    If denominations could hold the spirit of revival I would be more of a fan. But in my experience, it all to easily becomes ego. And, I tell people all the time that the unction of God is not Ego.
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Was that copy and paste meant for me ? its not really answering the question ??
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Three questions....

    Is this of God?
    Is this of the flesh?
    Is this of the devil?

    If the salvation was acquired with a sense of sanctification and the Holy Spirit all is well. This was the case of evangelists such as Billy Graham in which there was a second voice accompanying the message, and that was the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to the heart.
     
  10. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Teaching of Sanctification and successful Spirit filled life from the Billy Graham site....

    Abiding and obedience are the keys to a successful Spirit-dominated life.

    We are as much sanctified as we are possessed by the Holy Spirit. It is never a question of how much you and I have of the Spirit, but how much He has of us. The Scriptures teach that “sanctification” has three parts to it.

    1. The moment you receive Christ there is an immediate sanctification.
    2. As we progress in the Christian life there is a “progressive sanctification.”
    3. When we go to heaven there will be total and “complete” sanctification, which is called “glorification.”- Sanctification - Billy Graham Training Center at the Cove
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    My question was about ephesians 4.30
    30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
    Here it is saying that from the moment we are sealed by the Holy Spirit this is until Glorification. This means that we are set apart ( sanctified) by the work of the Holy Spirit..The practical aspect of sanctification is separate from salvation in the sense this is about our daily walk to mature and share the Gospel . Being more Holy does not make us more saved .
     
  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I believe the previous age was the Phialadephian age, which spanned many denominations

    Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: - Revelation 3:12

    This was a disadvantage of the age, and that was they were in and out of revival, comparing the temple in Revelation 3:12 to the one in the OP.
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Quality Christian conference is a great way of entering the temple of God.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Forgive my ignorance, but isn’t the word “sanctify” used two different ways.
    • There to sanctify meaning to set as aside or apart for a specific task or purpose. We are all fully “sanctified” in that sense from the moment that God places His stamp of ownership on us.
    • I have also heard “sanctify” used to describe the process of being made more like Christ. I can’t speak definitively for anyone but me, but that process still has a LONG way to go before anyone confuses me with my Lord.
    So until I have a better handle on what y’all mean by “sanctification”, I am not quite sure what the heck you are talking about.
     
  15. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Wonderful people are great examples of sanctification. And if you know great examples of sanctification consider yourself blessed.
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4
    Did John Calvin defile his garments in toasting Michael Servetus?

    1. Was it of God?
    2. Was it of the flesh?
    3. Was it of the devil?

    "Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way." - Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution
    "To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man." - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution
    "I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error."- Michael Servetus

    In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth.

    And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

    It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties. Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:
    "But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

    I think Calvin messed up big time in having Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to his immortal soul. Had John Calvin attained a full salvation i don't believe he would have ever thought of such a deed.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is part of the solution. (I had prior come to te understanding God sanctifies us to prepare us who are spiritually dead to hear the gospel. But some yet resist the Holy Spirit's work of sanctification, John 16:7-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 1 Peter 1:2.) When we receive the Holy Spirit being born from God, He will never leave us, John 14:16; Hebrews 13:5.
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    So you agree that once a person is sealed by the Holy Spirit he is sealed until the day of redemption?
     
  19. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Works salvation alert.
     
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  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    In no way can we sanctify ourselves reguarding salvation . But as Paul says in 1 cor 10 .23¶All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
    This is the practice . We are completely free from the law but not all things will edify . As we Mature in Christ we should grow more and more set apart from those things that do not edify.If in this you see 'licence to sin 'then that is not a mature viewpoint. Once we understand our security we grow as Christians, not sin more .
     
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