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Persecution

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Bunyon, Nov 5, 2005.

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Persecution

  1. We are experiencing a cold persecution and a hot one will follow

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%

  2. We are safe now, but persecution is clearly on the way

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%

  3. We are safe and I see no reason to think things will change anytime soon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Top Posters
  1. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    We increasingly see traditional/biblical christians at odds with our culture. We see homosexual marriage/rights becoming a value the culture insist on but we cannot agree. We see abortion common place, we cannot agree. We see mediums who talk to the dead becomming celeb's and several tv shows popularizing the practice, we cannot agree. Will we find ourselves so at odds with the world in the near future that persecution is inevitable?
     
    #1 Bunyon, Nov 5, 2005
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Couldn't vote as my answer was not listed. I don't know. As long as we have freedom of Speech, Religion, Press, Emmigration, and the right to vote, we will not face any serious persecution as is the case in tyrannical societies like Iran or China.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #2 Joseph_Botwinick, Nov 5, 2005
  3. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    We are quickly loosing freedom of speach, in part do to the PC crowd, and freedom of speach in regards to religious practices is under great attack. See what John McCain did under the guise of campaign finance reform.
     
    #3 hillclimber, Nov 5, 2005
  4. Kiffen

    Kiffen Member

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    I think persecution comes when the Church is actually representing Christ. Comparing the anemic lukewarm, entertainment oriented American Christianity to the Persecuted Churches of Sudan, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Egypt, Iran etc where they are actually bearing the Cross... and I see a minor league Christianity (USA) and major league Christianity (Asia, Africa).
     
    #4 Kiffen, Nov 5, 2005
  5. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "I think persecution comes when the Church is actually representing Christ. Comparing the anemic lukewarm, entertainment oriented American Christianity to the Persecuted Churches of Sudan, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Egypt, Iran etc where they are actually bearing the Cross... and I see a minor league Christianity (USA) and major league Christianity (Asia, Africa). "-------------------------------------------------------

    That might be one reason we could be persecuted. There are enough Christian voices that if we actually spoke up, the gov would never dare offend us, but like sheep we remain silent.
     
    #5 Bunyon, Nov 5, 2005
  6. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    They are not forcing us to have abortions or marry our own gender. Just because we can't make everyone else do what we want them to does not mean that we are persecuted.
     
    #6 Daisy, Nov 6, 2005
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1. They are forcing abortions on the unborn children. Perhaps, you would be interested in this new poll I recently started:

    Web Page

    2. I do believe that we are forced to fund it through our taxes.

    3. Liberals are trying to force it on our children (re: daughters) without even telling the parents. Two sides of this coin: What if the parent is the abusive (notice how the liberal argument automatically suspects the worst about the pro-life parents), but what if the abortion is covering up some form of molestation?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #7 Joseph_Botwinick, Nov 6, 2005
  8. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    They're allowing it, not forcing it and how does that persecute you?

    Why do you believe that? Does medicaid pay for non-therapeutic abortions? Again, how does that persecute you? Do you believe that the invasion of Iraq, paid for by our taxes, persecutes pacifists?

    More rightie nonsense. Which liberal is trying to force your daughters to have abortions? Citation please.

    Hmm, are you saying that the two sides of the coin are: 1) an abusive, pro-life parent has molested his daughter therefore the daughter will be forced by "liberals" to have an abortion, and 2) a legal abortion forced on a minor will somehow cover up "some form" of molestation of said minor? Before I respond, I want to be clear on what it is that you intend to say here.

    Since you are the one presenting this argument here, how can you maintain that some "liberal" is is saying that the abusive parent is pro-life? Unless you can cite a specific liberal who said this, you are just making up boogeymen and labeling them "liberal".
     
    #8 Daisy, Nov 6, 2005
  9. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    Alberto Gonzales has ruled as a judge that parents have no right to be informed if their minor daughter has an abortion.

    Our president appointed to be attorney general.

    That's why the GOP thinks we're "wackos"; we vote republican anyway.

    Well, I won't anymore.
     
    #9 The Galatian, Nov 6, 2005
  10. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "Why do you believe that? Does medicaid pay for non-therapeutic abortions?"----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you take all the facts and apply them equally to your posistion or just the ones that allow you to stay safely in your made up world? These same folks who want medicaid to fund Therapeutic abortions, also fought tooth and nail to make emotional trauma (without any qualifiers) a cause for a therapueutic abortion. This would mean any person who was emotionally upset about being pregnant could have a medicaid funded abortion. That is what your side tried to do. It is a matter of public record. Just because the "righties" stoped them, does not mean that they would not do it if they could.

    The "lefties" want unrestricted gov funded abortion and that is plain fact. Just because the righties are able to stop it does not make your sides intentions any less sinister in its intentions. Or you any less responsible for your loose standards when determining what is truth when it comes to the two sides of the abortion coin.
     
    #10 Bunyon, Nov 6, 2005
  11. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    "They are not forcing us to have abortions or marry our own gender. Just because we can't make everyone else do what we want them to does not mean that we are persecuted"----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Diasey, I am convinced you are living in a made up world. Have you ever tuned into one of the alternative channels or web sites even for a minute. They are always blaming Chritians for the any violence against gays, even if the perpotrator was not a chruch attender, they still say it is shows like Focus on the Family that causes violence against gays. This is their common and universal stance. When you point your finger at an innocent Christian and call them a murderer, you are persecuting them, and if you can get the rest of the world to buy it, who knows what might befall you as an honest Christian who is against homosexuality. Didn't you read that case where the Christian protestors were locked up. They did nothing more than the left has done in there protest. And they had permits, but they were locked up. Where do you think all the hate speach and hate crime laws will lead. Wake Up!
     
    #11 Bunyon, Nov 6, 2005
  12. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    My world is no more "made up" than your own, Bunyon, so lay off the personal insults. How would one apply "all facts" to a position? I don't know "all facts", do you?

    I do base my position on all the facts that I am aware of which are pertinent. Do you?

    Therapeutic abortions are given to save the life and health of the mother. Medicaid covers these, but not elective abortions. These same folks? No, some of them are the same but many are not.

    That is a different case and medicaid does not fund these.

    There happens to be a range of opinion both on the left and on the right, and that is a plain fact.

    My intentions are not sinister, Bunyon.

    There are actually more than just two sides to the issue and more colors than black & white.

    Speaking of truth, what I said to Joseph was that our tax dollars are NOT paying for non-therapeutic abortions - you are twisting that to falsely assert that I would have it otherwise. You should be careful when accusing other people of having loose standards for determining truth, Bunyon - you have not shown yourself particularly stringent in that respect.

    On what basis?
    There are many alternatives. Which ones in particular - by name or address - did you have in mind?

    Do you frequent alternative, non-Christian channels and websites? Or do you simply believe what is said about them without going there yourself?
    You seem to be exaggerating quite a bit here to say that this is what they "always" do. Can you give specific examples?
    Ok, if this is so common as to be universal (that is an enormous claim), give me ten specific examples - that should be a piece of cake for something universal, as you claim.
    Whose finger? My finger specifically or my finger so to speak?
    To the extent this actually happens, I agree, but I simply do not credit your claim that this is universal or even all that common. However, if you provide actual evidence in the form of citations, I'll concede your point.
    Who does know what? At any rate, what might happen is not persecution unless it actually happens.

    If you dwell in the "what might happen" world, it is ridiculous to claim that I live in a "made up" world. [​IMG]
    That case? Which case? Please be specific - generalities make exceedingly poor arguements.
    I'm wide awake, Bunyon, even at this hour.
     
    #12 Daisy, Nov 7, 2005
  13. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    Hey Daisy,

    I consider the left to live in a made up world for the most part, so don't take it to personal. It is possable to think someone is disassociated from reality witout harboring any ill will towards them. You seem to be extreemly left wing to me, which means we will clash some, but I like you.

    You require way to much info for me to accomidate you at this point.

    But, I meant the ubiquitius "you"
    I meant the one in Boston, I think. It was big news in Christian media, don't you watch Christian media. It has been 6 months or better ago.
    I hope you will trust me, even if I am on the right, but I could give you ten example easy, if I wanted to take the time to peruse gay rights web sites and media sources and watch the alternative channels and catelogue them for you, but I don't want to. But I have seen it way more than ten time on these sources and even on national media, but I did not write down times and sources because I did not know you would be asking for it, but I have seen it many times.

    You missed my point on theraputic abortions. The lefties fought tooth and nail to get emotional trauma categorized as a categroy for which a theraputic abortion would be justified. The righties stopped them. That is the only reason the a theraputic abortion is limited to the life and health of the mother. But left to the lefties- if the teenager girl said she was emotionally truamatized this would constitute a theraputic abortion and medicaid funding- that would be all cases woulden't it.

    "you are twisting that to falsely assert that I would have it otherwise"
     
    #13 Bunyon, Nov 7, 2005
  14. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Set em up again Bunyun did ya not realize you are
    bowling with Ms.Daisy.

    You might try some golf with her..then its Driving
    with Ms. Daisy. ;)
     
    #14 ASLANSPAL, Nov 7, 2005
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