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Featured Perseverance of Saints is.....actually it is Eternal INsecurity

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by vooks, Aug 4, 2015.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Really?

    Faith is placing a trust in someone or something....

    How about describing what "falling away from the faith" looks like?
     
    #121 steaver, Aug 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2015
  2. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    So what is departing from faith?
     
    #122 vooks, Aug 20, 2015
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    That's what I asked you.......
     
    #123 steaver, Aug 20, 2015
  4. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Removing your trust in someone or something
     
    #124 vooks, Aug 21, 2015
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Ok. So it is not about works, good or bad, or producing fruit or the lack thereof, correct? It is about trust. You trust Jesus Christ to save you.
     
    #125 steaver, Aug 21, 2015
  6. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    What is to ABIDE that Jesus commands us to do, and which we may not do?
     
    #126 vooks, Aug 21, 2015
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Endure what?

    The end of what?

    Saved from what?

    These are some of the most abused misapplied passages by Evangelicals and Puritans alike.
     
    #127 kyredneck, Aug 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2015
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Spot on vooks! Excellent points made.
     
    #128 kyredneck, Aug 21, 2015
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    What is the context? It is bearing fruit. If you want to make this passage about one losing their salvation, then you have to say you believe one is saved by their works.

    What must be in view to be burned is the works. We all have good fruit and bad fruit. The good fruit is done through abiding in Christ, having that connected relationship through prayer and steadfastness. The bad fruit is what we do selfishly, or by the flesh only.

    We are placed in Christ through faith, not through the fruit bearing.

    Do we have other passages which speak about how we build upon our foundation, which is Jesus Christ?

    "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward .
    If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1Cor3)
     
    #129 steaver, Aug 21, 2015
  10. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    I was very specific. What exactly is meant by ABIDE that Jesus commanded us. Stop playing dumb. The context is clearly John.

    You keep conflating Paul and John and totally unrelated concepts. Stick to John.
    1. Jesus commands us to ABIDE in Him. This necessarily implies human responsibility in obeying this command, else it is misplaced
    2. Jesus threatens cutting off and casting into fire whoever does not abide. It's that serious.

    And here you are yapping that it was a typo and Jesus should actually have said if you don't abide, you remain glued to Christ but your bad fruit is burnt in fire.


    John 15:6 (KJV)
    If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    Please explain what it means to ABIDE, CAST FORTH, and cast into fire in this verse
     
    #130 vooks, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2015
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I already did, and I use scripture to interpret scripture seeing how the word of God cannot contradict itself.

    Now you explain why Paul said a believer's works can be burned up yet he himself remain saved? Is Paul contradicting Jesus?
     
    #131 steaver, Aug 22, 2015
  12. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    No you haven't.
    How is being pluck off from Jesus the source of life and being cast into fire equate to your works being burned in fire?

    be wise. Paul's is a metaphor on the quality of your work. How can works be cast into fire?
    But we know men will be cast into fire
     
    #132 vooks, Aug 24, 2015
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