Perseverance of the Saints

Well said, Brother Glen.

 

1)Please provide proof for your allegation.

2)Actually, Augustine got his theology from the apostle Paul and the Bible. And Paul got his theology from Jesus Christ. And all of the Bible was authored by the Holy Spirit.

 

Do you mean this?

"In Calvin's will drawn up just before his death He says "I humbly seek from God to be washed and purified by the redeemers blood, shed for the sins of the human race.Zeller op cit."

There's no doubting of salvation in this statement. Don't you constantly ask for God's forgiveness, seeking to be washed in the blood of Jesus? I do so without doubting my salvation. I am simply admitting to my God that I am totally dependent upon Him for my salvation.

Also, I have been using the handle "Ken the Spurgeonite" for several weeks now.

May God have mercy on us all.

 

And how do you think you appear to others with your hateful speech toward John Calvin and other fellow Christians who are Calvinists?

May God have mercy on us all.

 

I agree!... We all need a daily cleansing from our sins... We are cleansed daily because we are saved... Not to get saved!... Some on this board need a good scrubbing ... Me included ... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

Lighten up you all

 

Huh? I have no idea what you are saying and how it relates to my post.

Where did I twist Calvin's words? I quoted (accurately) something he wrote explaining in what sense it can be said that the sins of the world have been expiated. Every time Calvin makes similar statements, isn't it reasonable to conclude that he may be using the words in this same sense?

You can't just take sentences here and there that someone wrote and say you have an accurate representation of their view on a subject, you know. You can make anyone say just about anything using that method.

 

Why do you think Calvinists would disagree with this statement?

 

So is the Salvation of Gods children... The ones that belong to Kosmos... Or the ones given by the Father to the Logos?... And what about the world?... God cursed it and every living thing in it!... Comments????... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

 

God so LOVED the FEW of Matt 7 arbitrarily selelcted for eternal life - that He GAVE His only son.

Ooops. I mean "God so loved the WORLD that He GAVE His Son".

To DRAW ALL mankind unto Himself John 12:32.

To BE the Savior of the WORLD 1John 4:10

For He is "NOT WILLING THAT ANY of the FEW arbitrarily selected according to MAtt 7 should perish"... Ooops. I mean "For He is not willing for ANY to Perish but that ALL should come to Repentance" 2Peter 3.

IF NOT - we could always evangelize this way

"God only cares to save the FEW of Matt 7 - that means few if any in this group are even cared about much less your friends, children, loved ones etc. HOWEVER on the off chance that someone here tonight MIGHT be someone that God loves AND that He cares to save TONIGHT, let us observe a moment of silence and SEE what God sovereignly does in this place.

Then - we can give Him ALL the praise and glory since the entire act will have been HIS ALONE without being tainted by our imperfect "appeals" or your "seeming choice".

---

As I said we "COULD" give that appeal - if it were true.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Don't say this outloud

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

My point was simply this: If Calvin himself has made a statement in which he delineates the sense in which it can be said that the sins of the world are expiated, why don't we take the other universal seeming statements by Calvin on the subject of the atonement in that same sense?

When Calvin says that Christ bore the guilt of the world, why do we not consider that he may have meant by that statement that "this benefit common to the whole Church" and that "under the word all or whole, he does not include the reprobate, but designates those who should believe as well as those who were then scattered through various parts of the world"? Why don't we consider that he may be making it "evident, as it is meet, the grace of Christ, when it is declared to be the only true salvation of the world". Why don't we consider that he is using the words in the same sense that he lays out so clearly in his comments on 1 John 2:2?

[ April 27, 2003, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

Actually, Calvin did teach that God gives people a flase faith, so that they really believe they were saved, but don't persevere.

With this in mind, it would be highly presumptuous to say "I am doing well enough to know I am truly elect", so naturally, there would be some wavering in total assurance. This perhaps was what was reflected even in Calvin's writings.
Ultimately, no one can really know, until they've lived their whole lives, "persevered" and died. Then, it's too late! We all have periods where our faith is shaken, if we are honest with ourselves. This can start a downward spiral, because just the very doubt seems to confirm that you are not the plant that is properly rooted. And since election is unconditional, there is nothing you can do. You can try to "persevere", but if it is not from God, it means nothing; just an attempt to save yourself by your own effort. You can pray and plead, but then that is just "mercenary affection" (Trying to get something from God— a pardon from Hell, rather than coming to Him out of love for Him). Anyone who has ever received Christ after being warned of Hell or told the benefits of Heaven can fit into this category. Who then can be saved, really? This is what I was just telling Larry on another thread, about accusing others of only making salvation "possible", when it is at best "possible" or "potential" under this scenario.

Still, the way it comes out actually fosters legalism, because as you can see in the quote, you have to be more diligent to "make your election sure", not become "sluggish", etc.

 

Ron Block who is a member of Alison Krauss' band, Union Station, released a gospel bluegrass album a while back and this is from the notes included with the CD giving his reason for writing the song and then the words.

"He's Holding On To Me"
by Ron Block
CD: Faraway Land

(It took me a long time to realize God isn't going to let me go; fear-based
religion can't take us very far down the road, because "he who fears is not
made perfect in love." Although "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of
wisdom," it isn't the end. Sooner or late we begin to find that "perfect
love casts out fear.")

There's a path along life's highway so common and well trod
By the shoes of burdened Christians who won't put their trust in God
They've' been born of the Spirit, but they live by what they see
So they trust in their own effort, never living in belief.

I'm not holding on to Jesus, He's holding on to me
He died and rose again to set me free
I am resting in the Spirit, not afraid of what will be
I'm not holding on to Jesus, He's holding on to me.

If you're living in the dungeon in the heavy chains of fear
Don't live another minute in the lies you're holding dear
The chains have all been shattered, the light is streaming in
You can't close your eyes forever to the One who lives within.

I'm not holding on to Jesus, He's holding on to me
He died and rose again to set me free
I am resting in the Spirit, not afraid of what will be
I'm not holding on to Jesus, He's holding on to me.

 

Perhaps this will help, romanbear -

2 Thessalonians 2:11-13(NASB)
11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.