1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Please answer this...

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by convicted1, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    --Why are people unsaved?
    They love darkness better than light.

    --Why do they love darkness better than light?
    Because they choose to.

    --Why do they choose to love darkness better than light?
    ______________________________?


    What say ye?


    I believe I know the answer, but I am not setting you up to tear you down, if you disagree with me. :saint:
     
  2. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Ratings:
    +36
    The scripture say's, because their deeds were evil.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    Zactly.


    Now, to you and others on here, why were their deeds evil?


    I am asking these questions as a way to delve deeper into the depravity of man....
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,173
    Ratings:
    +162
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe it goes right back to because "men loved darkness".

    But let's not forget the rest of the passage. Yes, men loved darkness and hated the light, but it also says those who doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    The passage distinguishes between those who have chosen to hate and those who have chosen to love. It doesn't say they all chosen to hate as Calvinist would like it to read.

    Good stuff!:jesus:
     
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    Thanks for you reply, Brother Steaver.


    Now...why do men love darkness better than light?

    Why do men love light better than darkness?

    Why do they choose that which they love?
     
  6. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +230
    Faith:
    Baptist
    People love the darkness better than the light because:


    • To love the light means that one has to hate his or her own personal sin and people do not want to acknowledge that they are sinners.

    • People do not want to admit that they are sinners because then that would mean that they would have to submit themselves to the "L"ight where salvation abides.

    • People do not want to submit to the Light of the world (Jesus) because that would mean that He would have authority over them in all things and they would actually have to live in obedience to Jesus Christ.

    • People do not want to submit to authority. Humanity is rebellious by nature.

    People, by virtue of their rebellion against God, prefer the darkness because they mistakenly believe that they are their own "god" there. But as Bob Dylan so wisely sang ... "You're gonna have to serve somebody ... it may be the devil or it may be the Lord .... but you're gonna have to serve somebody."

    The darkness is not a place of being one's own master. It's a place of being mastered by sin and evil - enslavement to the devil.

    Once people get that through their thick skulls, the idea of submitting to Lordship of Jesus Christ and His salvation is a GOOD thing and the Light becomes what one runs to. The yoke of Christ becomes desirable.
     
    #6 Scarlett O., Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    But what causes one someone to love one or t'other? It goes much deeper...
     
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    :sleeping_2:BTW, thank you all for your responses. I work nightshift, so it's off to bed.



    :sleep: :sleeping_2:
     
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,857
    Ratings:
    +230
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's innate in the makeup of a human being to worship something. You can substitute the words serve or love or adore or live in obedience to. Every person in the Bible - whether righteous or unrighteous - had a connection to a god of some kind, even if it was just self-centeredness.

    Look in Romans at that powerful end of chapter 1.

    It said that the people turned away from God and would not recognize His glory. Then it says that they SUBSTITUTED the creature, the creation, something else in the true God's place.

    It wasn't that they stopped their adoration something and became non-worshipers.

    They refuse to worship and adore the One and True God and worshiped anything but Him.

    Light. Darkness.

    They are our only two choices of what to adore.

    And we are going to adore something or someone. It's built into us.
     
  10. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Ratings:
    +36
    Also to add to the discussion, In St. John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; but the darkness comprehended it not. The natural man is in darkness as to understanding the spiritual things of God 1 Cor 2:14, Eph 4:18. he just don't understand them or comprehend them.
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,173
    Ratings:
    +162
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, and that is why they must be born-again, from above. Not by the will of man, but by the will of God. Those who believe, God gave the power to become the sons of God. Ask and it shall be given. One does not ask except one believes God will do as He said He would.
     
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    Thanks for the civility guys....keep up the good discussion...:thumbs:
     
  13. MB

    MB Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Ratings:
    +38
    There deeds were evil but, it's more than just that, They can't bare the thought of conviction for there deeds. They simply have no words to defend them selves with. There fore with out defense they are afraid always running like a fugitive from justice. How ever once caught they have to face the light or the witness that exposes there sin. This is where a lot of people end up. eventually they may be caught where they have to face the light and conviction. If they look at there sin and accept there conviction they might be saved if they turn to Christ, because they need the light to look at there sin
    MB
     
  14. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    Very good. :thumbs:


    Now, other than "they choose darkness over light", why do most reject the light?
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Ratings:
    +0
    Accept and reject are not terms that are compatible with determinism, neither is "choose". The very phrases used in the verse in the OP prove determinism to be incorrect.

    Why are men's deeds evil? Because they choose to violate God's law and give in to the desire of the flesh.
     
    #15 webdog, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2014
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    But why do they choose to do that?
     
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Ratings:
    +0
    Desire and pride, same as with Eve.

    So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.


    Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
     
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    But why do they desire? Sorry about all the questions, but I'm trying to show how deep the fall of Adam was/is...
     
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Ratings:
    +0
    I edited my post while you posted yours.
     
  20. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Ratings:
    +5
    Thanks. That shows people choose that which is most pleasing to them...
     
Loading...