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Please review this !! Regarding Word of Faith is Biblical!!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Oct 18, 2006.

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  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando New Member

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    PLEASE TAKE 10 MINUTES TO READ!!! ITS REGARDING WORD OF FAITH AND IT MAKE A VERY GOOD BIBLICAL ARGUMENT FOR IT. PLEASE READ!! AND GIVE OPINIONS!!!

    Why Speak Your Faith?
    By: Dr. Bill Bailey

    There has been a lot of discussion in recent years about the "Word of Faith Message", or "The Power of Confession", or maybe you've heard the term, "Name it and Claim it!" The question at hand is as to whether it is Biblical to teach that "profession brings possession" is a simple matter of checking the Bible, the Word of God, to see if the scriptures lend credence to this teaching.

    An often quoted scripture is Romans 4:17, "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were." Note that God, it says, "makes alive the dead, and calls those things that be not, (are not in existence yet,) as though they were already in existence. This is the essence of what God did in Genesis when He said (in the Hebrew) "Light be!" and, light came into being! Before He said it, light "was not yet", but once He said it, light sprang into being. "Well, yes," you might say, "but, Dr. Bill, that was God!" True! I will give you no argument there! The question becomes then, does God want US to "call those things that be not as though they are?" Let's look at what Jesus taught the disciples in Mark Chapter 11.

    "And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:22-24) Now this is the King James Version, and I know that it can be a little "blind" to us sometimes, so let's look at the same scripture in the Bible in Basic English translation, "And Jesus, answering, said to them, Have God's faith. Truly I say to you, Whoever says to this mountain, Be taken up and be put into the sea; and has no doubt in his heart, but has faith that what he says will come about, he will have his desire. For this reason I say to you, Whatever you make a request for in prayer, have faith that it has been given to you, and you will have it." Notice it says, "Have God's faith..." The Greek meaning here can be expressed, "have the God kind of faith," or "use God's kind of faith." Now if Jesus is teaching us that we should actually use God's Faith... which make no mistake, He is saying to do that... then, we should use God's faith in the same way that God uses it.... by speaking! Let's look at the rest of the verse... notice He says, "whoever will say." The promise here is not to EVERYONE, no indeed! It IS to anyone that will "say!" The qualifier is that you be willing to speak God's Word over the situation! And, note, He is not saying talk ABOUT the situation, He is saying rather to talk TO the situation, or thing! You must be willing to "say to the mountain" what you want it to do! A lot of people are simply not willing to "say!" They won't speak their faith! But, notice, as Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin has pointed out so many times in teaching about these verses, there are three "sayings," to one "believing!" Once you believe, you have to speak! 2 Corinthians 4:13 makes this clear as well, "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak." We believe, therefore we speak!

    Over and over again, the Bible makes it clear that once you believe, you must confess, or speak, the thing that you believe. Even in being saved, we follow the process of believing in our heart, and confessing with our mouth. Notice Romans 10:8-10, "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." The Word is near you, it is in your heart, and in your mouth! You must, it says, "confess with the mouth!" Notice, it is not enough to "think with the mind," you MUST "confess WITH THE MOUTH!" This follows the method that God used, He spoke, and it came to pass! We speak His Word, and it comes to pass! Whether it is in salvation, or, as the Greek makes clear in the translation of this word "salvation" used in this verse, "saved, healed, and made whole spirit, soul, body, financially and socially!" The word used here means all these things! It is literally "wholeness," or "complete restoration!" This Biblical principle of confessing God's Word to bring to pass what is true in the spiritual realm into manifestation in the natural realm is a key Biblical principle!

    Speaking the Word brings God's power and authority to bear on a physical problem! Consider the fact that the centurion that Jesus marveled at (because of his faith) understood this principle. Matthew 8:8 says, "The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed." Note, that he "was not worthy" because he understood that he had no covenant with God at that time, as he was not of Jewish heritage in the natural, but he understood that Jesus was walking in covenant, and in authority, with God. He said, "Speak the word only... and my servant shall be healed!" Then notice what Jesus said about him in verse 10, "When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel." Not even the Israelites of that day, though they DID have a covenant with God, had the faith of this centurion! Why? The centurion understood the principle of speaking the Word of God in faith! He understood that there is authority in God's Word! Beyond that, God's Word has the power within itself, to cause the Word to come to pass! This is a direct translation of the scripture in the Greek translated as, "For with God nothing shall be impossible." (Luke 1:37) Mary had asked the angel in effect, "How shall I conceive a child since I am a virgin?" The angel responded with the phrase above. Now, "with God all things shall be possible," is certainly true, but reading the King James translation, we dont get the full meaning! In the Greek, the angel was explaining to Mary the "how" of the situation, which is what she originally asked! "God's Word contains the power within itself to cause what it says to come to pass." Because God has spoken that she, as a virgin, would conceive a child, that Word spoken by God, alone, had the power within it, to cause it to become a material reality!

    Jesus went on to explain the importance of words on another occasion. In Matthew 12:34-37, He said, "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." He said this to the Scribes and Pharisees, who were supposed to be experts in the Word of God, yet He says they were evil. How can they, being evil, speak good things? Notice, He says that one speaks, "out of the treasure of one's heart." The word "treasure" used here, means "deposit." So, out of what you have "deposited" in your heart, or spirit, you will speak out of your mouth! Notice that Jesus says that we will be judged for EVERY "idle word," again, the Greek rendering helps us understand, "every idle, inoperative, non-productive word that we shall speak" is what we will be judged for! We should use words carefully, as we would power tools! You don't haphazardly use a power tool, or you could get seriously hurt! In the same way, you shouldn't misuse, or take for granted, the power of your words!
     
    #1 TaliOrlando, Oct 18, 2006
  2. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando New Member

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    CONTINUED!!! THANKS FOR TAKING TIME

    You might ask, "If words are so powerful, then why aren't they coming to pass instantly all the time?" You might say, "That scared me to death!" But, you don't drop over literally dead! True! Thank God! If so, we would have a lot of dead Christians to bury! No, the Bible teaches that the mouth, or the tongue, "sets in motion the cycle of natural events." It is, therefore, a process! What the Bible says in James 3:6 is, "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." The phrase "setteth on fire the course of nature" in the original Greek, translates, "sets in motion the cycle of natural events." Satan therefore, tries to get you to speak contrary to God's Word, and set in motion a chain of natural events, or a cycle, that will lead to destruction. No, you may not die immediately by saying, "That scared me to death!" But, you ARE setting in motion a cycle of events that enforces fear ("scared me") and death in your life! In this way, satan can attempt to shorten your life! He uses the very power of your own words against you! The thoughts and temptations to speak those words of death and fear are the methods satan attempts to use to "set our tongue on fire of hell. Ephesians 6:16 says, "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked." The "fiery darts" are designed to set your mouth against you!

    What should we do, then? Whatever we want to come out of our mouth, we should deposit in our heart! Psalms 119:11 says, "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Hide the Word of God in your heart! Store it up there! Joshua 1:8, "This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success." If you want to be "prosperous," and "have good success," then you should meditate on God's Word! Then, what you have stored in your heart will come out of your mouth... and that word, God's Word, will have the power within itself to cause itself to come to pass!

    Speak faith!
     
    #2 TaliOrlando, Oct 18, 2006
  3. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    God ain't santa claus. You're "verse plucking."

    God does NOT always give us everything we think we want.

    God does NOT always answer "yes" to our requests.

    God does NOT always grant us physical healing. Sometimes He grants a believer "ultimate healing."

    Word of Faith is dangerous stuff. I've rescued many refugees from this theological shipwreck.
     
    #3 rbell, Oct 18, 2006
  4. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Wow, that man is teaching out and out witchcraft.
     
    #4 James_Newman, Oct 18, 2006
  5. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    James, in some ways you are very right. They are taking God's word and using it like some mantra or invocational spell. The writer even misses the point in Mark 11, having God's faith is impossible because none of us can attain perfection. I have alot of trouble believing this passage is about receiving physical blessings when it is so closely tied with forgiveness. One either has to believe the statement of forgiveness was a throw away statement or some how involved with the believing.

    You know, I'd love to see one of them move a mountain, by speaking it. Hey, maybe old Benny and Joel can do a joint venture and between them they can have enough positive will power to move a mountain. :tongue3:
     
    #5 Chemnitz, Oct 18, 2006
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother James_Newman -- you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

    'Witchcraft' - the control and usage of magic

    'magic' - the use of words in an attempt to
    control the elemental forces of nature, the progress
    of events, and/or the unseen world

    I.E. 'magic' is an attempt to make demons do
    one's will. Strangely, demons sometimes appear
    to do one's will to deceive people.
     
    #6 Ed Edwards, Oct 18, 2006
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    AMEN!!!!!

    Get the gasoline!

    :saint:

     
    #7 El_Guero, Oct 18, 2006
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    Why does God need faith? I have never heard of God having faith. WOF is dangerous! They build their doctrine on scripture taken out of context. Very common among false teachers.
     
    #8 Amy.G, Oct 18, 2006
  9. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever New Member

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    "You don't have a God in you; you are one," (Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987, audiotape #02-0028), side 1.)

    "As a born-again believer, you are equipped with the Word. You have the power of God at your disposal. By getting the Word deep into your spirit and speaking it boldly out your mouth, you release spiritual power to change things in the natural circumstances." (Kenneth Copeland, The Power of the Tongue, 15.)

    Well, look at what comes out of Ken's mouth:

    "Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet." (Kenneth Copeland, "Spirit, Soul, and a Body 1" (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1) / "lt's all a copy. If's a copy of home. It's a copy of the mother planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it." (Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham 1" (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989, audio tape #01-3001, side 1)

    "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is. Everybody you ask "Who's the biggest failure?" They say "Judas", somebody else will say "No, I believe it was Adam", well how about the devil. He's the most consistent failure. But he's not the biggest in terms of material failure and so forth. The biggest one in all the Bible is God." (Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon" program - TBN (April 1988)

    Kenneth Copeland while speaking in tongues and slaying a man in the spirit appears to say: "Take the mark of the beast." (Kenneth Copeland, Copeland with RHB on video)

    "...We're gonna be Word people and we're gonna stay Word people and we're gonna be wealthy Word people in the things of God, and when you're wealthy ng in God you're content all the time, all the time. I can do with a dollar and a half than people out there can do with ten thousand dollars. Now you believe that? All right, reach out here like there's a big ol' lever stickin' up there in front and git ahold of it, and I mean you git it in your hand. You got your teeth gritted, you got a good grip on it? Rip it down some more. And say this ... money come out to me now! (Audience shouting with Copeland.) Money come out to me now! Third time ... money come out to me now! Now you shout about it."
     
    #9 dispen4ever, Oct 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2006
  10. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Taking scripture out of context is a no no, you always get wrong interpetation.
    God is not a magic genie. You can not command Him, you can not change His mind, you can not change Him.
    Man can never see the full picture in time as God can, we have no idea why something happens to us, but we can be secure in the knowledge that God is in control, and He is the only on in control. We can never ever see what the purpose of suffering is, or what the benefits are going to be.
    God is not as interested in our fleshly comfort as He is in our eternity, meaning sometimes we are going to suffer, and as scripture says God will build us with it, give intergrity, build our faith.
     
    #10 donnA, Oct 18, 2006
  11. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    The Word of Faith movement is built upon the revelations of false teachers of heresy and they themselves are out right Heretics.

    I have 22 pages of their sayings that are not only a misrepresention of scripture but is an out right blasphemy of Scripture, Jesus, The Father (about 6 ft 6 about 230 lbs.) and the Holy Spirit

    If you would like to have the websites I can give them to you.

    They have Who said it, when it was said (mm/dd/yy and sometimes time), on what type of media it was stated (TV, book, article, Tape, Video, CD) and direct refernce to be able to get to it quickly for verification.

    They are leading so many people into the pit of Hell.

    Take Kenneth Copelands Tape: Word of Faith pt. 1 (23 mins into it) side one
    If a person says I'm save enough they will be. God must act on your words. The more you say it the more you will believe it, and the more you believe it you will become, until one day you realize "Hey, I'm saved".
     
    #11 Allan, Oct 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2006
  12. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    Is speaking positive professions about yourself WOF? Because I hear alot of people everyday speak negative things over themselfs. (ie I can't afford a new car, I can't do "such and such". We have all stated these things at one time or another. But Gods word says...
    1Phil. 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

    Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

    The centurion knew about WOF.

    Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

    Jesus replied back to this man...
    Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

    WOF? I guess it depends on your idea of what faith is. :tongue3: :smilewinkgrin: :flower:
     
    #12 music4Him, Oct 20, 2006
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    In the case of the centurion, it was the words of Jesus (not the centurion) that brought about healing. The centurion had faith in the authority of Christ. In WOF a person speaks the words and waits for God to obey.
     
    #13 Amy.G, Oct 20, 2006
  14. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    Well now ya'll must be speaking of WOF people who pray for unelistic things like a mercedes so they can just show off? Or does it include a WOF someone who prays for a new van so they can take more people to church.
    When I hear WOF I guess I lean to the ones who want positive outcomes for the kingdom when they make thier request. But I also know there are some of those "Oh Lord give me a mercedes" WOF's and they need to wake up from their warm fuzzies. I kinda have a tendency to think these are not really "WOF" but just speaking "wow" ie... words of want. :wavey:
     
    #14 music4Him, Oct 20, 2006
  15. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Jesus sure didn't speak alot of possitive "OVER" people.
    He stated they were vipers, of their father satan, hypocrites, even called Peter Satan, ect...

    We see this through out scrpture.
    God does not promise if you speak words of healing you will be healed nor does He promise you will be healed in the manner YOU wish.
    God does not say speak positive things and it shall be. Paul prayed three times and it never was - maybe He should have just spoken it and not prayed?

    Benny Hinn has said “Never, ever, ever go the Lord and say, 'If it be thy will....' Don't allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth” (Rise and Be Healed! 1991, p.47-48).

    Phil 4:13 All things through Christ - is refering to living a life in need or exess and even in persecution. Not positive confession. Say it and believe it and you can do it.

    This verse has NOTHING to do with positive speaking AT ALL. From faith to faith is the very proclaimation of the gospel to one who believes becauses OF the gospel. Faith is not our words but our action based upon Gods promises or commands. We live by every word that proceeds from the MOUTH of God.

    Look again here as well please at the context of the verse
    Hbr 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    Hbr 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
    This is regarding salvation and that as a believer IN Christ we are not like others who leave but continue in our Faith that saves. It has nothing, again NOTHING to do with if I have to give positive confession and not say anything negitive.

    The reason you aren't to say anything negitive in the WOF movement is because it WILL BECOME fact because you speak it INTO EXISTENCE as though you are God. Which BTW what they teach IN WOF Movement and that is why they (it's teachers/preacher) proclaim what you speak, like God, will come into existence.

    The Centurion: HELLO - He believed that JESUS had the authority to heal. The word means nothing as Jesus healed without a word MANY times. Blind man, raising the dead girl, ect... Jesus spoke so others would hear and believe NOT because there was ANY inherent power IN WORDS themselves.

    His faith AGAIN was not His words but that he acted upon what he believed.

    No it is ONLY determind by what scripture declares it TO BE.
    a simple meaning: It is the ACT of believing God(head) and His Word.

    It is the act NOT confession. I can say all day long I'm savedm but until I believe the Word of God concerning Christ and His death, burial, and resurrection I will NEVER be saved no matter how much I say what I know God desires of me.
     
    #15 Allan, Oct 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2006
  16. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    This reminds me of the joke about the charismatic who found himself in hell and then said: In Jesus name I am not here!

    :laugh::laugh:
     
    #16 xdisciplex, Oct 21, 2006
  17. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Let us see some quotes shall we:
    You may say, I have never heard such non-sense, then please listen closely:
    Documentation above by Gary E. Gilley.

    He still maintains this belief TO THIS DAY!
    SHall I continue with a list from others. I was mistaken I have 58 pages from over 10 top WOF Proclaimers
    Kenneth Haggin, Gloria Copeland, Paul Crouch, Jan Crouch, Benny Hinn, John Avanzini, Morris Cerullo, Jery Savelle, Fred Price, CHarles Capps, Creflo Dollar, E.W. Kenyon, A.W. Tozer and others. - actually they are weblinks to these sites - BUT EVERYONE (with regard to those preacher/teachers quoted) SPEAKS THE SAME THINGS JUST EACH ONE TO DIFFERING DEGREES OF HERESY OR BLASPHEMIES/
     
    #17 Allan, Oct 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2006
  18. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Oh, my word! Thanks for those quotes, Allen - It certainly makes me not want to stand next to those guys for fear of a lightning bolt! I can't believe the nerve, the audacity these men have!! Amazing. I wonder what 'word' they got THAT stuff from!

    Scary!
     
    #18 annsni, Oct 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2006
  19. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    It has been told to me that there have been instances where people that are into the WOF movement have had to be removed from car dealerships for laying on the bonnets of cars, babbling in tounges and "claiming" that new car for themselves.

    What I want to know is why the people that run the WOF movment are so pushing the mantra that people have to have more money and material goods in order to be happy and that this is some type of sign of Gods blessing.

    What did Jesus tell the rich young man to do? Go, sell what you have and give it to the poor, then you shall have riches in heaven".

    Where does Jesus push people to seek after money and materialism.

    If you ask me, the teachings of the WOF movment are one of the best tools Satan has to break up churches, by lying to the flock, filling people with false hope and false doctrine and ripping every cent he can get out of them.

    "Reverse the Curse" - Get out of WOF!
     
    #19 Ben W, Oct 21, 2006
  20. Pete

    Pete New Member

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    I don't buy it...

    Hang on, what's this...

    Psalms 73:9 Their mouths lay claim to heaven, and their tongues take possession of the earth.

    Hey, could they be on to something after all? I better look for some context.

    Psalms 73:4-5 They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from the burdens common to man; they are not plagued by human ills.

    WOW! Maybe the health and wealthers are on to something after all. HOWLalujah! Where do I sign up...no, hang on, I better take one more look...

    Psalms 73:3 For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
    Psalms 73:12 This is what the wicked are like- always carefree, they increase in wealth.

    Oh....OOPSIE....ok, cancel my subscription after all ;)
     
    #20 Pete, Oct 21, 2006
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