1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Plural pastors in history

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by rlvaughn, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Last week, on the Baptist History Preservation Forum that is on Facebook, we had some discussion of the idea and practice of plurality of pastors/elders. One member challenged the idea of the plurality of pastors as a modern invention or modern practice. I put together and posted on my blog some historical excerpts that indicate it is not modern at all, but with some continuity in church history. What I have is a hodge-podge that needs more study, understanding, and interpretation, but I think it will show that it is not "modern". Sometimes there is a difference in whether the writer understands or means a plurality of combined preachers and ruling elders, or whether all elders are "pastors and teachers". The linked lists begin in more recent times and works back toward the New Testament era. In addition to these two links, I have another that I will post tomorrow. Some of you in the history forum might find some of this interesting.

    History of the plurality of pastors, a beginning
    History of the plurality of pastors, a second dose
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I copied these to my notes. I hope that is OK. Thanks for providing these.
     
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Today I posted the third edition:
    History of the plurality of pastors, this third time I am coming to you

    You're welcome. Yes, feel free to use this information in any way that is beneficial. Anything I share is for the profit of the whole. If any errors, please pardon those!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There of course were a plurality of elders in at least some churches. Acts 6 is a clear example. However, when we start trying to say that it is the only biblical way to do it and it was the only practice of the 1st century church then we have lost footing. It just isn't there.
     
  5. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Revmitchell, your statement engages two perspectives, (1) the scriptural example and whether it is the only biblical way to "do church" and (2) what kind of practices can be discovered in history.

    Since this is a history forum, I don't intend in this thread to particularly engage the first perspective. I have discussed it on my blog here and here, and it has been discussed on the Baptist Board, at least here, here, and here.

    On the second perspective, plural pastors in church history, these historical excerpts were gathered for the purpose of proving that plural pastors is neither new nor novel. I believe that history amply proves that. On the other hand, church history does not provide proof of what is scriptural, just what is historical.

    [To be clear, I do believe plurality of pastors is the scriptural ideal.]
     
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In my final post on this topic of plural elders in history -- History of the plurality of pastors, finishing the testimony -- I consider 11 writings, all of which are recognized by some as “Apostolic Fathers” (though every “list” is not the same and does not always include all eleven). The “Apostolic Fathers,” according to Sam Waldron, are “those writings supposed to have been written before AD 150 by the disciples of the apostles.”

    The eleven considered:
    The Didache
    The Epistle of Barnabas

    Clement’s First Epistle to the Corinthians
    Hermas - The Shepherd
    Ignatius, Seven letters
    Polycarp’s Epistle to the Philippians
    Fragments of Papias
    Fragments of Quadratus of Athens
    Pseudo-Second Clement

    Anonymous, To Diognetus
    The Martyrdom of Polycarp


    It is my opinion that seven of the eleven writings favor and point the early historical record toward plurality of elders in a single church (some more directly than others). Three of the writings have nothing that address the subject. Ignatius is the sole possible supporter of any kind of “episcopacy,” speaking of three offices (bishop, elders, and deacons) with the bishop in the singular and distinct from the elders.

    Examples:
    Clement of Rome’s First Epistle to the Corinthians, 1 Clement 47:6 “It is shameful, dearly beloved, yes, utterly shameful and unworthy of your conduct in Christ, that it should be reported that the very steadfast and ancient Church of the Corinthians, for the sake of one or two persons, maketh sedition against its presbyters.”

    Didache, 15:1-2 “Choose for yourselves pastors and deacons by raising the hands, men worthy of the Lord, gentle and not lovers of money, and true and well taught; for they give service, and the same are to you as to service of prophets and teachers.”

    Ignatius Epistle to the Trallians, 3:1 “In like manner let all men respect the deacons as Jesus Christ, even as they should respect the bishop as being a type of the Father and the presbyters as the council of God and as the college of Apostles. Apart from these there is not even the name of a church.”
     
Loading...