Politics aside, should Christians be glad that we went to war with Iraq?

Nope. I don't blame America for terrorist attacking us. I do blame those yelling and screaming for us to get out, giving the terrorists what they want in the process, because they don't have the patience to win the win that it takes. They are mainly anti-American liberals and pacifists who think we can make nice and fix everything by tucking tail and running like cowards. Good try though. One of your better attempts at twisting my words that I have seen in a while. Unlike you, instead of rewarding those terrorists who behead innocent civilians by giving them exactly what they want and leaving, I want to defeat them. I want to support my country and my president and defeat them. You don't. That is the difference, Ken.

Joseph Botwinick

 

He did however have delivery systems that could reach Israel. We learned that in the first war. Iraq had the capabilities to develop nuclear weapons as Israel destroyed their nuclear plant in the ‘80s so the knowledge was there. Saddam had chemical weapons and he used them on his own people the Kurds as well as against Iran. Chemical agents have already been found as well as military jets and what not hid in the desert, it’s not a matter of there not there, it’s a matter of locating them. Saddam booted the UN inspectors out of Iraq, remember, and Saddam played a cat and mouse game with the UN inspectors the whole two terms of Clinton.

Furthermore, UNSCR 678, 687 & 1441 provided the LEGAL basis for military action against Iraq.

I’m assuming Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait in ‘89 has slipped your mind? It’s NOT about oil, if it were; WHY am I still paying $2.00 a gallon for gas? Officially there was never an end of the first war with Iraq. The UNSCR kept the threat of an attack pending Saddam’s cooperation with the UN inspectors he was playing cat and mouse with.

 

Two Honest questions for you....

1. How do you know when we have won the "war on terror"?

2. Do you think it is possible to, as President Bush said, "rid the world of evil"?

 

Yes you do. You said, "I do blame those yelling and screaming for us to get out". And you said, "Bush's exit strategy never took into account the lack of unity and support America would show for its troops who are in a combat zone."

You are blaming America first, Joseph.

Let's see:

1. Joseph claims liberals blame America first.
2. Joseph blames America first.
3. Therefore, Joseph is a liberal.

 

What does that have to do with defending these United States?

 

Kinda sounds like someone running for President by the name of John Kerry. Funny how people forget Kerry’s false and hurtful testimony against those veterans of Vietnam and the efforts of the war, when he appeared before the Senate in 1971.

 

With the concern over greenhouse gases, shouldn't we, including Arab countries, use more nuclear plants for generating electricity?

 

Two Honest questions for you....

1. How do you know when we have won the "war on terror"?

2. Do you think it is possible to, as President Bush said, "rid the world of evil"? </font>[/QUOTE]1. The war on terror will go on for a long time. It will never be completely defeated because there will always be evil people in the world. But, as it pertains to the war we are fighting right now, I would look for the following things to happen:

* OBL and his Al Quaeda network leaders are dead or in prison (although, I prefer the former).

* One thing that must happen is that we will have to understand the link between all terror organizations throughout the Middle East (which is, BTW, one reason I argue that Al Quaeda is connected to Saddam, because it is no secret that Saddam supported financially and otherwise with training camps in Iraq, terrorist organizations). Many isolationists will want to say get OBL and be done with it. They could care less what happens in Israel. But, I would argue that what is happening in Israel is connected with what is happening to America. There are several reasons for saying this:
a. When the Iraq war was gearing up, I remember watching groups of terrorists boarding a bus in Israel (Palestinians), Syria, and other parts of the Middle East to go to Iraq to be "martyrs" for the cause on the news. This shows an obvious connection throughout the Middle East.
b. To say that Al Quaeda acted alone is to be rather simplistic I think and naieve.

Therefore, I believe we need to bring stability (Not perfection), just stability, to Iraq, finish up in Afgainstan. At that point, we will see what happens again. Some of this stuff could be worked out with diplomacy. Look what happened with Lybia after the Iraq War began. They were stumbling over themselves to turn over their WMD's. Wonder why? Don't forget that we went through a decade of resolutions, diplomacy, and inspections before we took this step in Iraq. It is not as if it just happened one day, although Michael Moore and the liberals in the media would love for you to believe that. So bring stability to Iraq and Afgainistan, and then re-evaluate the situation. The exit strategy idea is really a red herring because it is not a conventional war like we fought in WW2 or even Vietnam. We are not fighting against a legitimate government. We are fighting against renegade terrorists organizations. They don't acknowledge the rules of war. They don't recognize diplomacy. If they did, none of the terrorists attacks in the past 25 years would have ever occured. So, we need to change the way we think about war. The alternative is to become like Jerusalem in modern day times.

This, of course, is not an exhaustive plan, and is subject to change based on world events. But this is where I think we stand right now.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I forgot to answer your second question:

Just as America rid the world of evil in its time in WW2 and the Cold War, I believe that we can rid the world of the evil of our time. Does that mean that there is no longer Nazis who do evil things against Jews? No. But, when is the last time you saw the Jews being burned in ovens and gassed in concentration camps? Does that mean that Communism doesn't oppress people in China? No. But, when is the last time you worried about the USSR aiming its nukes at us? Does that mean that there will never be a terrorist attack ever again? No. But we can certainly make the world a better place.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I can respect your answers, but also realize that the Bush administration doesn't want to just "bring stability to Iraq and Afgainistan", but they have a goal of invading every country in the Middle East to "spread democracy". As I have said before I support defending our country against the terrorist that attack us, and support using "profiling" in our imigration and national security policies to prevent future attacks, but I will never support a globalist policy of American imperialism and spreading democracy to every nation around the world. There have always been people who hate the US, and there always will be, that is why a defense policy is the best policy for our department of defense.

 

Bush never said he had an Imperialist policy of invading every nation in the Middle East to spread democracy. Imperialists don't leave and allow self-government when they are done. They stay and rule forever. We are not going to do that. In a few days, we are going to turn the government over to the Iraqis. In January, I think, we are going to let the Iraqis decide if they want to keep that government or change it. That is what democracies do.

Joseph Botwinick

 

You need to read more of what President Bush's neocon advisors have written and said, Joseph.



[ June 25, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: KenH ]

 

Good advice, DD. I am not sidetracked at all.

 

Daniel,

Ken has never allowed reality to sidetrack him.



Joseph Botwinick

 

This thread just gave me a headache.

 

I just tell ya'll the truth, JB, and you just don't like the reality of it.

 

I thank God every day that we took the way over there. Every day. I pray that militant muslims die. I pray God gives us four more years of dubya, and I pray that the U.S. never ceases to support Israel.

 

I pray that our president will do what is best for these United States and if that conflicts with the modern political State of Israel, then Israel must take a back seat to the interest of my country, these United States of America.

And I also pray that militant Muslims will come to Jesus in repentance and faith.