Poll concerning Creation(ism)

There is only one account of creation in Genesis. Obviously Gen 1 deals with all 6 days of creation and Gen 2 deals with the last day. They are not 2 different accounts. And one is not poetry while the other is history. They are both historical. Honestly, I have never met any theologians or scientists that think the first chapter of Genesis is poetic and not meant to be taken literally.

 

Poetry. Absurd.

 

Just because it is Poetic does not make it untrue...
Look at Job, Proverbs, Psalms, Song of Solomon, ....

All are Poetry.. all are the Word of God.

Like I said, I have always been taught that Gen. 1 was poetic in nature because people passed the story down through generations orally, and it was so important to pass this information down that God may have given it to Adam as a song...

I believe it was 6 literal days.. .as I believe Gen 1 is poetic in nature.

 

Actually the poetic section ends at Gen 2:3

Moses then picks up another story on creation...
Notice Man is created in Gen 1:27
And then another story about the creation is given in Gen 2:7

Those are 2 different accounts of the same creation...
I believe the account in Gen 1:27 was part of the poetry from Gen 1:1 to Gen 2:3, and the second account is a second creation story that ties into the creation song in Gen 1:27.

But like someone said earlier.. this is not a hill I will die on...
Even though I feel Gen 1:1 to Gen 2:3 is a poetic song... I still believe it is the pure unadulterated word of God...
I also believe (as an opinion) it was a song that God gave to Adam.. and it was passed down orally until Moses wrote it down.

 

Repetition does not make poetry. Genesis 1 lacks any Hebrew parallelism or any progression of meaning which is common in Hebrew poetry. It is simply statement of fact with repetitive phrases lending to importance.

 

We are not looking at Hebrew Poetry... For this poem would be have been coined over 2000 yrs before the Hebrew nation was formed...

 

Show me one that suggests otherwise.

Actually I would think that we should look at the actual text of what transpired to see there is probably longer time between insertion in Eden and the Fall than two and a half days as many would suggest. Notice how in Genesis 2:19 Adam is to name all the beasts of the field and the air. If we took a brief overview of all of the current species we discover there are about 50,000,000 species in the world. Something tells me that even in Adam's day there were still a significant number of these animals to name. Let's suggest there are even half of what there are today (remember there is still some observable micro-evolutionary transition traits) that means there at 25,000,000 animals. Let's suggest Adam takes about 30 seconds to name an animal (it's easy at first then the first duckbilled platapus walk across the floor...then well, hey it's all up for grabs.) It would take 12.5 million minutes to get through them all, or 8,651 days, or 23 years 10 months and 15 days to name them all. Something tells me that is a real consideration.

Additionally if we check out the whole conversation between the woman and the serpent there appears, at least in an initial read of the text, to be a pre-existing relationship or connection (not with Satan but a talking snake) between Eve and the serpent.

Couple of points here. One thing that Genesis is clear about is that the antedilluvian age had some very different life sustaining characteristics than what happened after the flood. Hey, Adam's still fathering kids at 130...that's crazy. Something would also go to say that Cain and Abel (who's ages we don't have a clue on) were obviously advanced in their ages and note teenagers. A better question is why isn't age mentioned until that point?

Anyhoo, we can probably talk about this until we get blue in the face...well, until we carpal in our tunnels. Here's the thing. My point is this, I believe there are a multiplicity of viewpoints with this issue. It is pointless to be dogmatic about this (not saying you're being dogmatic, I have always appreciated your insights and levelheaded posting.) There a lot of views. Mine tends to accept that a coherence between what little science can observably show us about the age of the world with a broader read of the timeline. I'm not dogmatic about any of it. Just tossing out a, perhaps, fresher viewpoint.

 

While this is a reasonable argument we need to remember who wrote it. And I would add that the nature of Genesis is clearly not poetry as it was one of five books considered the law. Genesis one was not thrown in with any of the other poetic books.

 

I haven't heard anyone in this conversation say they don't believe the first creation account isn't literal.

Let me clear one thing up about Hebrew Poetry: Just because something is in poetry does not mean it isn't literal. In fact much of the prophetic literature in the Old Testament is in poetry form and, I think most us agree on this, that became literal fact in the person of Jesus Christ.

As I said before, I believe that if God wanted to create the world in 6 days or 600 days He can easily do either. The first chapter of Genesis seems to tell us He chose 6 and kicked up His feet on the 7th (well the first part of chapter 2 says that.)

editted to add: and for what it's worth the writers of the Old Testament often comibine multiple literary genres within a particular book (narrative, poetry, polemical, etc.) It's not uncommon to find genres spliced together in the same book of the Bible. Happens in the New Testament too.

 

Well, one thing about this discussion Rev.. I have read a lot on Gen. 1 over the last hour!!!
I love Baptistboard.... it makes a person dig out the jewels in the Word!

 

Wow!!

Someone else had the same idea I had...
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/Genesis_texts.html

 

What a great link.

 

Actually, a lot of biblical scolars believe it wasn't passed down orally. Moses probably got his material from books written by Adam, Noah, Abraham and others. Look up "toledots" and this should give you some info on possible contributing written material for Genesis.

Most creation scientists think there were only about 8,000 kinds. Also note, God brought the animals to Adam to name. Adam just stood there. And, finally, it was only the fowls of the air and the beasts of the field (not all animals).

I think, if you study origin science, you may see that the scientific evidence fits a young earth/ 6 days of creation and a flood World View better than a millions of years World View.

 

Do you realize that this site assigns authorship of Genesis to authors other than Moses?

 

A LOT of false teaching on that web site. Try tooling around:

www.answersingenesis.org and www.icr.org

 

Didn't say I agree with the site 100% but it does agree with what I had figured out on my own...

And I too believe that Moses used other authors to compile his books...
Moses, being a briliant scholar would have had access to all the great books of the world in the egyptian libraries... He would have had access to many many works growing up.

I believe that God directed the works God wanted Moses to use to pen down. And Gen 1:1 -2:3 could have very well been passed down through the ages to Moses, who, under the inspiration of God, thought this bit of literature would make a great intro for his book of Genesis.

Of course, you all could be right, and I could be wrong...
I can't wait to ask Moses what sources he used to pen Genesis... But gotta wait until I get to Glory...

If someone beats me to Moses... DON'T COME BACK AND TELL ME.... I repeat... I don't want to know bad enough for one of you to come back and Haunt me!! lol

Good night guys, and thanks for the Bible study!

 

Did you even 'read' the article Tim??
Like this as an example:

This guy hasn't got a clue!

I'll get my book back that I lent out to a friend regarding Gen and chapters 1 and 2 and I have another one (Creation to the Cross) which we used in OT Survey back in school (Southeastern College). It isn't two different creation accounts it is the same account with emphasis on different things for different reasons but it is still the same account.

 

So Moses didn't write the texts, he just adopted the views of three other authors?

Seems like redactionary criticism and our friends J, E, D, and P ...j/k

There isn't much too this view though other than speculation.

Yeah but this is where creation scientists (and I use that term loosely) start using doublespeak. They are suggesting that there were only 8,000 species. Using observable (keyword) measurements there are (and we'll limit it) approximately 100,000 species of beasts of the field (mammals, things that roam on land...I'd include insects but let's not get pushy) and birds of the air today. How, in 8,000 years, has there been such an expansion? Doesn't seem to be genetically possible. Each species would have to have at least 12 unique variants in the course of 8,000 years. The genetic migration to create a uniquely new species is so grand it takes quite some time. I just don't see that happening in the course of 8,000 years.

I've really looked into this stuff, I really have. I just don't buy the "scientific" arguments on either side. It is a faith thing.

 

Actually, this isn't unique to this site. The JEPD theory of the authorship of the Pentateuch is highly regarded scholarship and has been around for years. It posits that the Torah is an amalgam of writings from various wirters. I learned about this back in Bible class in High School in 1970.

 

I had a feeling people would go after the guy for holding to the JEDP theory...when you can't confront the Hebriac arguments go for the knees I guess.

For what it's worth their comments on the Hebrew structure are pretty good. If you can get past certain elements of scholarship (which legitimate scholars of all ranks must do at some point) there are valid things being said on that site.