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Poll on the GIFT of TONGUES -- PLEASE VOTE!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Phillip, Feb 10, 2005.

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Poll on the GIFT of TONGUES -- PLEASE VOTE!

  1. I believe in the gift of tongues is still alive today and is represented by the "Pentecostal" method

    43 vote(s)
    59.7%

  2. I believe the gift of tongues is strictly the ability to get a message across in a foreign language

    2 vote(s)
    2.8%

  3. I believe that the Bible represents the "Pentecostal" method, but it ended after the first century.

    27 vote(s)
    37.5%

  4. I believe tongues is foreign LANGUAGES only and it ended after the first century.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Top Posters
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  1. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    I used to hold that they were known languages. Try to find a copy of Tongues in Biblical Perspective by Charles R. Smith on the subject, published by BMH books.

    H. Wayne House cites Smith in addressing this issue briefly here...

    http://www.hwhouse.com/Current%20Articles%20Downloads/Theology/tonguesandmystery.htm


    On the other hand, here is a good site for the "known language only" position...

    http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/tongues/apendix1.htm


    Incidently, the Middletown Bible Church site is a great wealth of material from a dispy perspective!
     
    #21 rjprince, Feb 14, 2005
  2. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Hi Ray,

    It is good to see you back in the Bible forums. I have been carefully following the tragedy in your family and my thoughts and prayers are very much with you and your family. But, since you are back here, I am taking an exception to the concept that 1 Cor. 13:8 – 12 teaches that the sign gifts ceased at the time that the last words of our N.T. were penned.

    8. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
    9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
    10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
    11. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
    12. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

    I have studied a number of commentaries on the Greek text of 1 Cor. 13.8 – 12 and to interpret this passage as teaching that the sign gifts ceased at the time that the last words of our N.T. were penned is simply an exegetical impossibility. In spite of B. B. Warfield’s popular exposition, I know of no scholars of the Greek New Testament that have ever accepted that interpretation. Indeed, the very large majority of them ignore that interpretation as being at best ridiculous. The only exegetical commentary of First Corinthians that to my knowledge even mentions that interpretation is the commentary on that Epistle by Gordon D. Fee and he relegates that interpretation to a footnote and writes, “It is an impossible view. . . . “

    Personally, I do not know for sure whether or not any of the sign gifts are in operation today, but I do know for certain that 1 Cor. 13.8 – 12 does not speak of the completion of the New Testament.
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG]
     
    #22 Craigbythesea, Feb 14, 2005
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Although I am all too familiar with the absurdities of dispensationalism [​IMG] , I agree that this is an excellent site with a wealth of sound teaching [​IMG] .

    But watch out for the dispy stuff! Many students of the Bible have been derailed by it! :eek:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #23 Craigbythesea, Feb 14, 2005
  4. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Craig, If gifts were no done away with at the end of the New Testament era, then who today correctly practices these gifts.

    Let me clarify what I am saying. The Pentecostals build their entire theology around the gift of "speaking in tongues" based on their view of it. They do not follow Paul's commands for a single person to talk, to always have an interpreter, etc. In the Pentecostal churches I have seen the use of tongues (if it were truly a gift) is being misused based on Paul's admonitions to the Church of Corinth.

    Now, if we do away with the Pentecostal movement, where are gifts practiced? Where are the prophets, if the gift of prophecy is to be used in preference to tongues?

    Now, I am NOT saying that it is impossible for God to have an African hear English in his or her own dialect. I have heard stories of this happening. Although, I also hear stories of Mary's picture crying blood; I will not say and cannot say if these few situations really occur. It is NOT beyond the capability of God, but why would it be so rare and the other gifts, particularly prophecy is even more so; after Paul said to seek it, instead of tongues?
     
    #24 Phillip, Feb 14, 2005
  5. Pete

    Pete New Member

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    #2 for me.
     
    #25 Pete, Feb 14, 2005
  6. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Thank you for voting! [​IMG]
     
    #26 Phillip, Feb 14, 2005
  7. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Phillip,

    All of this is irrelevant to the proper exegesis and interpretation of 1 Cor. 13:8 – 12. That specific passage does NOT say that any gifts will cease at the completion on the New Testament, and early church history, as you know, expressly tells us that the gifts, including tongues, continued to be in operation in the ante-Nicene church. This specific passage DOES say that the gift of tongues and other gifts will cease at the end of the church age when we no longer see in a mirror dimly, but face to face, and when we know fully just as we have also been fully known.

    8. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
    9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
    10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
    11. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
    12. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

    Whether or not the gift of tongues is currently in operation somewhere in the world today, I do not know, but whether it is or is not is irrelevant to the proper exegesis and interpretation of 1 Cor. 13:8 – 12.

    [​IMG]
     
    #27 Craigbythesea, Feb 14, 2005
  8. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I was not using 1 Cor. 13:8-12 in my argument. It is based on the remaining sections of the Bible especially Acts where the action and meaning of tongues is explained in detail and also in Corinthians when Paul asks the church to hope and pray for prophecy instead of tongues. He set down the rules for tongues. I know that today the Pentecostal movement does not follow these rules (or at least the ones I have seen). I cannot say for sure gifts such as these are dead. No doubt miracles still happen, certainly not through people as they did in the NT. But,, if these gifts do occur they are few and far between because by following Paul's admonition there would be heavy practices of prophecy within the church, as compared to the use of tongues as a "sign" of Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    Would you say that this is true?
     
    #28 Phillip, Feb 15, 2005
  9. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    No.

    [​IMG]
     
    #29 Craigbythesea, Feb 15, 2005
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes.

    HankD
     
    #30 HankD, Feb 15, 2005
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I don't agree with any of those positions. In 1 Cor. Paul was seeking to put the issue under control.
     
    #31 gb93433, Feb 15, 2005
  12. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    GB, I think you and I may agree on this. Tell me if I'm wrong. I think the Corinthian church was getting out of line on a lot of their beliefs and I think the Corinthian letters were an attempt to correct them in all of these areas, but try not to make them give up either.

    I think the use of tongues was abused in the church (possibly even like today) and instead of just saying "no", Paul put down some very strict limits that prevented them from continuing to abuse it the way they were (however it was being used).

    Is that what you believe gb?

    In my opinion this is the reason that it is so amazing that the Pentecostal church uses the Corinthian letters as the basis for their belief, since it is so obvious that Paul is not happy with what they are doing.
     
    #32 Phillip, Feb 15, 2005
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