Poll: The Forgiveness Thread

I see the Pastor's point, of not only seven but seventy time seven. I have in the past used it for a season, but after a while, I would let go of any bad feelings I might have against anyone.
Well, I suppose it takes you and the Lord to forgive, but one could forgive without the other party, I think. Reconciliation, is another case though, it does take both sides to reconcile.

BBob,

 

Forgiving someone requires my action. What happens in the relationship after forgiveness requires dual action, but my forgiveness doesn't.

 

Me forgiving someone is honestly more for my benefit.

 

Just to be clear, I have not said that forgiveness and reconciliation are the same. They are related, but not identical. My point in the other thread was that no one seemed to be interacting with the biblical data concerning the definition of these things.

Secondly, in the interest of clarity, I also made a distinction between the act of forgiveness and the attitude of forgiveness. As I said there, "We should have a willingness to forgive and should not bear a grudge, but we can't forgive until someone asks."

 

Well, I screwed up your poll LE.

I do believe one can forgive without being asked. I also have no trouble with forgiveness without punishment.

Forgiveness without repentence I just don't know about. I have to admit that I didn't even realize I thought differently about this aspect of forgiveness. I'm going to have to think it over a bit.

Off the top of my head though, I do believe that repentence might be necessary in some cases in order to gain forgiveness. Not that we humans don't have the capacity to forgive the wrongdoings of others to ourselves, but that we are required to forgive those wrongs without the repentance of the other party.

After all, God doesn't forgive us without repentance.

I'm thinkin' some more study is required before I can give a better answer.

 

Bolded mine

Beg to differ PL; no scripture that I've seen says anything about being willing to forgive "IF ASKED". They simply say "FORGIVE".

As SaggyWoman said, forgiveness is for the "forgiver's " benefit, not the offender. If the offender benefits from your forgivness, that's just icing on the cake, not the cake!

 

That's fine ... No problem ...

 

Two verses:

Eph 4:32 ... Forgive just as God forgave you.
1 John 1:9 ... If we confess our sins ... he will forgive us our sins.

So if, as I have been saying, our forgiveness of others is based on God's forgiveness of us, then this would seem to be significant. BTW, this the position that Jay Adams talks about in his excellent (for the most part) little book entitled "From Forgiven to Forgiving." I have changed my positino on this over the years.

And I also make that firm distinction between an attitude of forgiveness (which requires no confession) and forgiveness (which requires confession).

With all due respect to Saggy, I disagree. Forgiveness has nothing to do with me. It has to do with God and the gospel. That's why we forgive just as God forgave us ... so we can show forth the glory of the gospel to the world. Most people who forgive lose ... They willfully give up their right to claim repayment. But in so doing, they glorify the gospel where God chose not to charge us with our sin and instead charged Christ with it.

 

Three concepts are involved in this discussion: forgiveness, repentance, and reconciliation. As I understand their relationship forgiveness is a step that must be taken by the offended party followed by repentance on the part of the offending party and the result is reconciliation between the two. Reconciliation is the ultimate goal, but it is not always reached. Though the offended person forgives, if the offender does not repent, reconciliation becomes impossible.

Consider Jesus' statement on the cross: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Notice that Jesus does not actually forgive the sins of those who are crucifying him. He expresses his desire to do so to the Father in this statement. However, he cannot actually forgive them because they are in the act of crucifying him as he speaks. They are unrepentant and therefore cannot be reconciled to him in this circumstance. Nevertheless, Jesus expresses his desire to the Father. The Father honored this desire as the book of Acts records that many who were crucifying him later came to faith.

As Christians we must always stand ready to forgive. However, not everyone will repent of what they have done. In those cases we release them to the Father who works all things for our good and for His glory. If the offender will repent, the cross has the power to reconcile us together.

 

I agree

I'm with you on this.

 

We are called to forgive, no where are we told the other person must ask or want to be forgiven, or even think they have anything to be forgiven for. Forgiving has to do with us, not the other person.

 

I believe when you are "born again", that you are born with a "forgiving" heart.

BBob,

 

A.) I can not forgive without the gospel and God.

B.) We do forgive as God fogave us.

C.) and it is to bring forth the glory of the gospel to the world.

D.) I do give up my right to claim repayment.

E.) But, in the bigger picture, it is to my benefit, because if I hang on to the bitterness and the anger and the resentment, I haven't really forgave, and I disintegrate into one bitter person.

 

Just a few random thoughts.
I would think forgiveness is a one person deal:
Matthew 6:14 - "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 "But if you do not forgive others , then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Luke 23:34 - But Jesus[SIZE=+0] was saying[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] lots[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], dividing[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] up His garments[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] among[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] themselves.[/SIZE]


Forgiveness is a choice to obey a command. Trust, reconciliation and forgetting are different issues. Forgiveness is given. Trust is earned. I am not sure we can ever forget. I have used the illustration of a man cutting off my arm in a fit of anger. I can forgive him, but I may not trust him to respond correctly to anger the next time. And, certainly every time I try to reach for something, I am going to remember what happened.

 

I agree 100%.

Our Father which art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name.
They Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others...

If we do not forgive others; how can we expect God to forgive us?