Featured Praying to the Saints in Catholic Biblical Perspective

---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." (St. Luke 15:7)

---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents." (St. Luke 15:10)

One cannot rejoice over the repentance of those on Earth unless one was made aware. Ergo, they “observe” that which happens here.

Are you now arguing Moses is not in heaven?

 

The ignorance of Scripture is YOURS.

The witnesses of Heb. 12 are the other live Christians, as seen from Heb.11, which speax of the line of faithful Israelis from Moses til then. Neither Moses nor any other saint of the past sees (nor cares about) anything occurring on earth, til Jesus returns, an event He said will be seen by ALL, even those who pierced Him.

God made exception & sent the soul of Samuel to communicate to Saul at Endor. Sammy's appearance even startled the necromancer who'd "summoned" him, as she knew her other summonings were phony.

The other Christians then alive on earth were those witnesses.

Say whatcha want. However, many RC officials call their church "Roman Catholic" or "Holy Roman Catholic Church". No getting away from that. It's on PUBLIC RECORD many times !

And again, the RCC is a mixture of faith with the traditions of men, in direct violation of Jesus' words against such a mixture !

 

Angels can see things on earth; dead humans' souls cannot.

 

One would have to be pretty stupid to read my post and think I'm arguing Moses isn't in Heaven.

Clearly. I'm pointing out that the verse doesn't say anything about Moses, which anyone who can read can see.

 

Not one of the verses you quoted show what you claim.

 

First of all, in typical Catholic fashion, you're dishonestly citing this verse out of context.

Just a little tip for you that those of us who can read are already aware of, any time a verse begins with a conjunctive phrase, that tells you that is not the beginning of the verse.

Second, you are not the Hebrews refered to in Hebrews 12:22.

No, you cited several verses that say nothing about our loved ones and then declared that they say our loved ones "monitor us".

Sadly, your lying is typical of Catholicism. You and your cult are truly children of your father, the Devil.

In other words, you can't answer the question.

And yet, every Catholic Bible contains Maccabees, just as I said.

 

We are told there is joy in heaven by those "with the angels." (v. 7, 10)

Logic 101: Who is in heaven with God in the presence of the angels?

 

Please pardon my stupidity, but you did say, “Neither of those verses mention Moses or any person in Heaven observing the living on Earth.”

Is Moses in heaven with God and “with the angels” or not?

 

That's getting to be a full time job.

What does that have to do with you lying about those verses mentioning Moses?

According to your cult, to say Moses is in Heaven would be the "sin of presumption".

I believe he is, but you can't say he is without going against your cult's teachings.

 

I am grateful for your patience with my stupidity.

Thank you for your concession and torpedoing your entire argument.

If Moses is in heaven, he would thus know what is happening to the faithful on Earth, per the words of Jesus.

Checkmate.

 

Perhaps then, YOU can show me some official documents that pertain to the Holy "Roman" Catholic Church?? This should be easy for you . . .

As to Heb. 12:1 - it IS talking about those who died in faith - and the fact they are are now "so great a cloud of witnesses". It goes on to say that we should therefore behave accordingly since they ARE witnesses.

A "witness" sees and hears - otherwise they are NOT witnesses . . .

 

Can you show me where the Bible differentiates??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

Another exercise in complete ignorance.

The Church proclaims Moses to be in Heaven.
WHY would you claim that is would be "sinfully presumptuous" for a Catholic to agree with the Church??

 

And, as I educated you back in post #33 - the Bible that Jesus and the NT writers studied from ALSO had the Maccabean Books - and the other 5 Deuterocanonical Books you reject,

YOU hold to a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon that was declared by a FALSE Prophet who also declared a FALSE Christ.

Good job . . .

 

Except that Jesus didn't say that. But I guess when your cult has such contempt for God's Word, it's only natural you would have no trouble lying about it.

Not one verse you cited even mentions Moses, much less says those in Heaven are aware of what goes on on Earth.

 

Jesus says exactly this...

--> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." (St. Luke 15:7)

---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents." (St. Luke 15:10)


One cannot rejoice and have joy over the repentance of those on Earth unless one was made aware of what goes on on Earth.

Checkmate.

 

Once again, nothing about Moses and nothing about our loved ones in Heaven "monitoring" us.

 

You already sunk your own boat by conceding Moses is in heaven.

One cannot rejoice over the repentance of those on Earth unless one was made aware. Ergo, they “monitor” that which happens here.

It’s checkmate for you.