Pre-Age of Reason children.

I don't understand what the difference would be. Does faith not come from God alone? Isn't it God's grace alone that gives us faith?
My answer is yes.
There is no reason to think that His grace wouldn't be extended to whoever he chooses.
Gina

 

Gina,

If those babies can have a faith in a way that we cannot understand...then why not baptize infants?

 

Why?
Baptism gets you wet, and nothing else. It may even lead to an infant getting sick--not a wise idea. Perhaps the sickness will lead to the infants death. Ooooooooohh that infant baptism could really be evil now, couldn't it?

The trouble with most Catholics is that they don't have a basic understanding of grace. Grace is simply God's unmerited favor to man. Grace does not come through the seven sacraments. It does not come through anything that is tangible. Grace comes straight from God.
How is one saved? What does the Scripture say?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

The Lord puts much emphasis on grace. By grace are ye saved.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

And if it is by grace it is not by works. Baptism is a work.
Salvation is entirely by the grace of God.
If God in His grace decides to take an infant up to Heaven, that is entirely His decision (not ours) to make. He is a merciful and gracious God. And as in the case of David's infant, I am sure that in God's grace He does take infants into His care and protection.
Salvation is by grace not by works (Romans 11:6). There is a definite contrast between grace and works. It is evident, even impossible for an infant to work its way to heaven. Therefore the infant is taken to Heaven by the grace of God.

God in his grace allows the sun to shine on the just and the unjust alike; He allows the rain to fall on the just and the unjust alike. Would he be so cruel and vindictive a God to condemn innocent infants to Hell? I believe not! God is a God of love and grace. For by grace are ye saved.
DHK

 

I was a catholic when my first two children were born. The priest visited me in the hospital and told me to make an appointment to get them baptized as soon as possible "in case something happened to them".

That way I could be sure they would go to Heaven. The implication being if I did NOT do so, they would go to hell.

Hogwash!

 

I'm going to keep saying this until you people listen.

The Catholic Church teaches that we entrust the souls of unbaptized babies to the MERCY of GOD.

You ASSUMED what the priest meant. Did you bother to ask him WHY?


LaRae

 

I don't have much of a problem with that. I think it's pretty pointless, but it doesn't bother me. The worst it can do is get the child wet. If people feel convicted as Christians to have their whole family baptised, that's their decision. The only part that bothers me is to hear people say "I think I'm a Christian because my mom had me baptised when I was an infant", and I've heard people say that.
I personally prefer for my children to ask to be baptised and give me the proper answer as to why they think it should be done, one of which did so recently btw.
Gina

 

I'm going to keep saying this until you people listen.

The Catholic Church teaches that we entrust the souls of unbaptized babies to the MERCY of GOD.

You ASSUMED what the priest meant. Did you bother to ask him WHY?

LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]LaRae, What does "entrusting the souls of unbaptized babies to the Mercy of God" mean? To a person not well acquainted with Roman Catholic theology would not that same phrase be equivalent to "in case something happened to them?" in which case it could easily be assumed that their child could "happen" to go to Hell if they were not baptized?
DHK

 

Infant Baptism in the Catholic church, from what I've understood and read, states that it washes away original sin. What do you, as a Catholic, believe happens to a child who hasn't been baptized and thus still has original sin?
Gina

 

It means exactly what it says. Here's some exact quotes that may help you understand.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"[63] allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

VII. THE GRACE OF BAPTISM
1262 The different effects of Baptism are signified by the perceptible elements of the sacramental rite. Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.[64]

For the forgiveness of sins . . .
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.[65] In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.


LaRae

 

Infant Baptism in the Catholic church, from what I've understood and read, states that it washes away original sin. What do you, as a Catholic, believe happens to a child who hasn't been baptized and thus still has original sin?
Gina [/QB][/QUOTE]

Read what I just posted to DHK...


LaRae

 

I for one would like to know where to find this doctrine in the bible. It's frustrating to be told it's in the penubmra ...

 

I didn't have to ask him and I assumed nothing.

I was born and raised a catholic and attended a catholic grade school.

I had enough catechism in me to know exactly what he meant.

 

I didn't have to ask him and I assumed nothing.

I was born and raised a catholic and attended a catholic grade school.

I had enough catechism in me to know exactly what he meant. </font>[/QUOTE]Then why did you contradict the catechism? I posted the exact quotes from the catechism, as to what the Church teaches. It's not what you are claiming.


LaRae

 

Adam - did I upset "your view" of "Holy Water"? Do you know how to "make" Holy Water Adam?

Have you actually "seen" the advertisements in the back of Catholic Digest - or are you speaking out of the void of what you don't know?

 

Indeed - but if you also give Biblical support for that view (as I did in my posts) ... some people "object".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Infant Baptism in the Catholic church, from what I've understood and read, states that it washes away original sin. What do you, as a Catholic, believe happens to a child who hasn't been baptized and thus still has original sin?
Gina </font>[/QUOTE]Read what I just posted to DHK...


LaRae [/QB][/QUOTE]

I did. The best I can get is that it says they don't know, but hope there's a way they'll be saved, but it's urgent to try to make sure they're baptised.
That's a very confusing answer. There's a great urgency to baptise them so they'll get into heaven that way than the other? Is there an assumption as to what the other way is? Is it just a hope that there's another way and what happens if there isn't one?

Thess , as long as you're posting on a BAPTIST board us baptists are gonna keep telling you every chance about the true way of salvation and what we think of the doctrines you present.
Gina