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Featured Pre or Post-Tribulation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by pleasant1312, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. beameup

    beameup Member

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    Yes.
    When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, [Holy Place in the Temple] - Mt 24:15
    For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. - Mt 24:21
    Jesus is speaking to JEWISH genetic Israelite disciples and speaking prophetically.

    the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me - Jn 14:10
     
    #21 beameup, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Will it be at the request of God? Will it be an act of disobedience?
     
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Okay, I'll anticipate that you're planning on answering my other questions as well...:)

    Well you begin in Revelation (which has all kinds of problems) and take a specific futurist interpretation of the book. Why not a historicist interpretation? Why not an idealist interpretation? Why not an eclectic view? Why only futurist?

    Now you mention the first and second period of trial. Are the two period conjoined? Are they unique? Are they separated?

    Also, this is an important question, do you take all the uses of numbers in Revelation to be exact or "literal" uses?

    Notice how the first (according to you) set is 3.5 years (its actually 3.45 years) and the second 3.5 years are separated by significant space in terms of the account of Revelation. Why is that?


    Yeah, that's interesting in Daniel. I've always asked (and never gotten a good answer) why is it that the 69 weeks in Daniel are "literal" but the 70th week isn't?

    But the math doesn't work out then does it? If you begin from Christ's crucifixion and count backwards (which is an error laden methodology) you end up with a problematic dating. If you use traditional rabbinic dating you fall short of Jesus' era.





    Please don't just cut and paste from Strongs. Besides, are you saying for an hour the trial will commence? and only last for that period?

    This is the hard part about eschatological interpretation: you have to, at some point, use figurative language to describe what you might consider a literal event.

    You haven't made your case.

    How do you handle the constant use of the term, we translate "tribulation/trial/persecution", without affixing any temporal delimitation? How do you handle that there is never a direct link between these two 3.45 years and the point that the faithful are present within them? How do you work through the trouble that there is often a point (particularly in the Olivet Discourse) that believers are going to be part of this period?

    Remove your points from Revelation (which I take, mostly, as a historical account of past events, though chapters 19-22 are futuristic) and you have no real accounting for a seven year period. Even in Revelation you don't get seven years, but 6.9 years. Trails, or tribulations (as it often occurs in plural form), are to be expected by the believer but it is not an eschatological sign or moment. It is an ongoing trial whereby we find out faithfulness proven.

    The trouble with using Revelation is that it is a ranging book that uses highly Jewish symbolism to speak about events so curious that they are hard to imagine as real.

    So let's talk about the rest of my points. :)
     
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