predestination

Your argument is not with me, but with scripture.

 

Christ didn't die for everyone, only for His sheep

 

A poor understanding of sin and Gods will.

Please read the 1689..

We went over this just a week ago.

If God allows sin, it is within His will yet is not the cause of sin.

 

Sounds like you have read ALL of your Bible in context.

 

The statement simply means, to those with discernment, that Jesus Christ is the means of Salvation. You also might try reading the referenced Scripture.

 

Simple, God, in His sovereignty, gives man free will to either reject or accept the Gospel.

BTW, there is no reason to continue to debate this with you or any other Calvinist. It is a waste of time. It's like arguing with a Jehovah's Witness. They have formed their beliefs by taking certain verses and applying them to fit their preconceived ideas. Therefore, I refuse to continue to argue and thereby cause strife among God's people, which is a sin. We will just disagree with each other on this point. Have a great day!

 

You would say this to a fellow believer in Christ? God help you! :tear:

 

God's will is not contingent on what the response of man may be.

This "might be" business is hypothetical universalism which the Scriptures do not teach.Also, you depend too much on KJV terminology which clouds your mind when trying to reason things out.You are a 21st century guy who occasionally uses basically 16th century words which are not as accurate as the wording in more modern versions.

The Lord did not will that each and every person -- past,present and future be saved. As a matter of biblical fact there are a number who are ordained for everlasting destruction.

If you think a passage like 2 Peter 3:9 will come to your rescue -- think again.Deal with the intended audience which Peter was addressing and also the nonsensical stance of God willing every single person -- head-for-head to be saved.If something is His will -- it will be done -- period.

 

All Scripture Quoted Is From The TNIV

So I would like to see your support from Scripture that the will of a puny human trumps God's will.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with a few passages which teach the real deal.

Job 23:13 : But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever pleases him.

Psalm 115:3 : Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

Psalm 135:6 : The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths.

Daniel 4:35 : All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: 'What have you dones?"

 

Indeed I would. It is heretical and blasphemous for a professing Christian to maintain the the will of man trumps the will of God.May God help those who teach this anti-scriptural stuff. They need to renounce this false doctrine, repent and use the Word of God honorably from now on.

 

Let's chew on the following verse:
II Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation."

We have two ways to look at this verse. First, that God has reconciled every person without exception to himself, and that they are no longer subject to the penalty of their sins; that is, all are saved or will be saved.

Or two, world means something different.

 

Thats right the whole world can be saved if they will only be reconciled to God.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
MB

 

You want to just answer the question for a change instead of spew vitriol?

 

And like a week ago, still doesn't answer the question. If we can't go against God's will, and we sin which is against God's will, we have violated a command which is God's will.

 

There are a few things to note before I begin.

1st...It is not surprising that we see free-willers take the unorthodox position that man has more will power than God.
After all...this is what they base their theology on.

2nd..It is surprising that they admit it. Most of the time they will never go that far.

3rd...It is surprising that the BB allows this to go on. I have seen others kicked for less than this view. This is clearly unorthodox.

Lets start with what is a will. Most philosophers and theologians ascribe 3 aspects to that which makes up the will.

1) Self-determination which comes from the wisdom that one holds.
2) His power
3) His love and other moral attributes

(1) >>>>>>We can say that both man and God has Self-Determination.

Before we get to 3 (which we will find key to this debate)...I want to ask your feeling on 2.

Please don't dodge.

 

What was asked was this....

Is the WHOLE WORLD reconciled?

 

Do you want to remain in the camp of the unorthodox with your sin of believing that the will of man trumps the will of God? That singular doctrine of yours would be rejected by most Protestant churches of even the Arminian persuasion.

Have you shared this teaching of yours with your pastor -- or kept mum about it? If you haven't told him I find it strange that you would want thousands of other folks around the world to learn first-hand of your defection from historic, biblical Christianity in this respect.

 

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is .....not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

If these that perish do so as the results of "God's will",

then 2Pe 3:9 is a "lie".

Heb 6:18 it was impossible for God to lie,

"LAW", the "principles" of how Law functions does change, any violation of those "principles" is also a violation of the law.

Why do you suppose God gave man the "LAW", and do you suppose God will violate his own law???

Like a lot of other people, you don't understand law, Jesus didn't die to take away sin, he died to take away the law that required a "DEATH FOR SIN",

With that law "fulfilled", it was "possible" that people "MIGHT BE" saved from having to die, as the law required, for their sins.

Jesus only nailed the law to the cross, not sins, that's why the law can be taken away for the "Whole world", but sin/death still exist.

The "Day of Atonement" a "ScapeGoat" (Jesus) and a "Goat for the people" (our bodies of sin) had to be sacrificed "BEFORE" atonement was complete.

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

We have to offer our bodies a "LIVING SACRIFICE", before we will be saved, no sacrifice. no shed blood, (life of the flesh) no remission of our sins.

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice,

Le 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to "YOU" upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

life of the flesh is blood, I have given it to "YOU" to make an atonement for your souls: (it is) blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Heb 9:22 and without shedding of blood is no remission. (of sin)

Flesh and "BLOOD" can't inherit heaven but "FLESH" (Glorified body) and "SPIRIT" can, just as Jesus showed.

God "predestine" that we would have to "drink of Jesus cup", that is "Conform to his image", in sacrificing the flesh if we are to be saved.

I'm surprised at how few people really understand the plan of salvation they expect to save them, especially with the possibility of catching "HELL" if they get it wrong.

God/Jesus are not at odds with each other over how many they want to save, Jesus is God.

If it's God will, then it will be done,

so if man's will trumps God will, then obviously, God's will is not involved/enforced,

 

NO, we're not saying that at all,

we're saying God's will is not involved in "OUR" decision to "believe" or not believe".

God calls, but the "CHOICE" is ours to make, not God's.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

Your beginning and starting... :laugh: ...And then Rippon (to no surprise) jumps into the fallacy wagon... Rhetoric Rippon..Rhetoric!!! :laugh: