Predestination

Put it another way, simply say that although God's grace is attractive & persuasive, it is not powerful enough to triumph over those who stubbornly resist his love. no supprise here...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

What a novel way to say someone who doesn't believe the way the Primitive Baptist believe is not saved. Of course, nothing will be done about it.

 

Just check out post #16, and then ask Pinoybaptist what he thinks.

I can't help what you doubt. I know what I heard, and I consider it blasphemy! I'm not accusing anyone, even the Primitive Baptist here, saying that they believe or teach this; and I'm certainly not accusing anyone here of blasphemy. I just don't see how this lines up with what the bible teaches. The scripture says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

Just wondering what your definition of the gospel is? Also, how do you reconcile what you have said with Eph. 1:13? Key words being [the gospel of your salvation]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

Didn't they have creation, God's law in their hearts, the desire to be immortal and having been placed in the exact location and time to seek Him and "perhaps find Him"?

 

nowhere did the Apostle here say the gospel was their salvation. the gospel is good news, so it is, ......after that ye heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation..... please do as the Bereans do. Hear the preacher, look at the Scripture, and see if what he taught, corresponds to what Scripture said.
If your preacher taught you that salvation is through the gospel, then he taught you wrong.
Christ is salvation, and Christ only. Christ wrought salvation, and Christ only. Christ, His Person, His finished work, His blood, is the temple that sanctifies the gold, which is the gospel.
Christ could never have sent out any of His apostles into the world to preach the good news of their salvation to any of His redeemed people, their redemption unto God for all eternity will still stand.

 

and just what is it you expect to be done ?

 

"It is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God---not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph. 2:8-9)

 

This is all that is required for the dead sinner to live:

"....The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live."

It's not the voice of the preacher, it's the voice of the Son of God that has to be heard.

 

I think he is saying the same thing that Warfield recognized, .... the Gospel stands or falls by grace. The gospel is not really the gospel unless it is a gospel of grace; in other words, the gospel is only good news if it announces what God has done to save sinners. and if that is true, then the gospel stands or falls with the doctrines of grace.

 

The gospel is that which reveals and declares the finished work of Christ. The problem is people believe the gospel is the means by which sinners get to heaven. This is simply not biblical. The gospel is the means by which sinners become enlightened to what Christ has done for them. For instance, Paul says the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith. Now, he did not say the righteousness of God is offered in the gospel, or that it is received through the gospel. He said it is revealed in the gospel. Paul said that Christ has brought life and immorality to light through the gospel. The gospel is a light.

 

Amen! :thumbs:

 

First, I never said or implied that the gospel (message) was their salvation. It was after they heard the gospel (message) they believed. So what is the gospel (message)? Is it not the message of The death (Christ died for our sins) the burial and the resurrection of Christ? Is not that what one must understand and believe to be saved? Is it not through the power of the gospel message (which is the preaching of the Truth that Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross by shedding His blood for us) that we are saved? Is this not what one must believe (faith)?

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Power here is:

G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

Which is refering to the power of God....God works through His Word (His Truth) or, we could say the Truth of the Gospel that we find in His Word. Is it not the Holy Spirit that convinces us of its Truth so that we will believe?

Second, Your response is very arrogant and condesending and was not called for. Not to mention that you jumped to a lot of conclusion that were just false. If you read the Bible this way it is no wonder you have to attack those you disagree with (or think you disagree with). You certainly need to practice what you preach and be humble enough to search the scriptures like the Bereans, or at least use scripture in a humble manner to show me why you think you are right or where you think I am wrong.

Thirdly, can you explain what you mean by your ending remark that "Christ could never have sent out any of His apostles into the world to preach the good news etc"?????

 

I am not sure what you are saying here....(you said, "the gospel stands or falls by grace." Are you saying that the gospel message can only stand on the doctrines of grace (as interpreted and taught by Calvin) and that it is not through faith (in Christ's finished work on the cross) that Christ saves us by His grace as Eph. 2:8 tells us?????

 

But Paul did say "...the gospel was the power of God UNTO salvation..." so how is that different than receiving salvation through the gospel by faith (the gospel being the finished work of Christ)?????

 

I just imagine your pastor loves to see your face every Lord's Day!


17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

BTW leaders=Pastors

 

Yea, I thought this too when I read it.

I love to minister to these guys who are so spiritual in their own mind that they practically don't need a pastor.

They put me in mind of Korah in Numbers 16

And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

Ephesians 1
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

But they don't NEED pastors! They are like Korah.

 

cc78 you said:

How do you explain;

See where it says ......whom.....{the people} He foreknew them,predestinated them,called them,justified them....
really curious how someone who says they believe the bible then says they do not believe God does what he says....to WHOM He says He saves?

 

Bro. Robert,

I want to address the statement I bolded and before you jump my hide, please read this post all the way through. I am one who holds to free will as much, or more than, anyone on here. But I agree with what that pastor said. He may have said it differently in his context, but as you have stated it, I agree with that statement. Here is a scenario I give you, as I gave out at my home church last year and they agreed with me. Here goes:

There is an Ethiopian that has never been to church, let alone, heard a preacher before. When God comes to him and shows him his lost condition, that is the Gospel right there. And then he can be saved by God working this out in his life.

Here is scriptual proof:

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now, the gospel may be the "good news", but its more than just "good news". It is God's power unto salvation. So yes, someone can be saved without ever hearing the gospel. Mind you, not everyone will go/can go, this route, but God works in ways that none of can comprehend.

Now this is coming from someone who isn't a Calvinist/DoG, but I do believe this that I showed you!!

i am I am's!!