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Present your BEST argument for church tithing

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Soulman, May 27, 2005.

  1. bgoc bryan

    bgoc bryan New Member

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    Jimmy Romans 2:14-16 seems to clear some of this up for me. I have tried to take my personal stand to give to back God first. My church does not take a hard line on the tithe. I do not belive it to be a requirement, but is pleasing to the Lord to give to him what he gave first.
     
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Bryan, I am just curious as to whether when you say you have a stand to give back to God first, that you would actually give a large portion of your rent or mortgage money 'to God' [presumably meaning to your church], even though it would mean being kicked out or having your home repossessed, if it really came to that. We have had threads and polls before about these kinds of situations, and a few say they would do that. I really doubt if it's likely they have genuinely faced that dilemma, though.

    Incidentally, I have noticed that, since the times we had so many threads and polls about tithing that there seem to be less posters who rigidly defend it as a requirement for Christians. There probably has not been as much changing or lessening of their position as of being tired of saying the same thing. But putting the really 'hard stuff' before them-- e.g., either pay your tithe or pay for your kid's medical emergency-- may have contributed to this less stringent 'command.'
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Alcott...ya know it may just be possible that some of them MIGHT have just seen that the idea of tithing for New Testament Christians really DOESN'T "wash" with what the Bible actually does teach on the subject.I know there are diehards that will never be convinced but I really do believe that if you take an honest Spirit-led Christian,show him or her a balanced,contextually correct review of the truth on this matter that the Holy Spirit WILL lead them to the truth.Some folks are teachable...some folks aren't.The truth for the NT Christian is...GIVE....cheerfully,often,and sacrificially.God loveth a cheerful giver.

    Blessings,
    Greg Sr.
     
  4. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    I'm also sure that there are a lot of folks who have read all of this that are now listening VERY CAREFULLY to what their preachers teach or preach regarding this subject.Objectivity is a good thing.

    Greg Sr.
     
  5. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Amen Greg. It is good to see people are willing to look and see what God really says on the subject.

    The church needed to be awakened to this. Too many Christians were being beaten over the head with the tithe. They were told they were stealing from God even when they couldn't pay their bills. Pay no matter what and God will bless your finances. Pay all your tithe to the church(Storehouse tithing). HOGWASH!!!

    I just really pray that there have been some pastors who have read this and other threads and come to know the truth about giving.

    It is an awsome responsibility when you are responsible for an electric bill not being paid for a struggling family because your advise to them was to tithe no matter what.

    We are to give sacrificially. Not blindly!
     
  6. Bluefalcon

    Bluefalcon Member

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    What you are saying makes no historical sense. If God commanded the tithe at any point in history, what about all those poor Israelites under the law of the tithe who couldn't pay their debts. They were allowed to break the law of the tithe, then, right? In your own words, HOGWASH!

    Cheers, Bluefalcon
     
  7. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Blue....I think Soulman was just trying to make the point that New Testament Christians are NOT under any obligation to tithe WAGES to a "storehouse".I think there is something in the tithing laws in the OT that even exempts "wage-earners" from tithing.Any of you "scholars" out there know where that is?I'll look for it myself when I get some time but I gotta get ready to go to church at the moment.I think..(note:"think")that even in the OT tithing was only commanded of the "producers" such as landownwers,farmers,and those who owned and raised livestock...not the poor,the fatherless,the widows,or the Levites(who were keepers of the temple and owned NO PROPERTY or Land of their own.Everybody else was on the RECEIVING END of the tithe so that no one would be "wanting" of anything.That the poor sometimes GAVE to the temple is illustrative of sacrificial GIVING out of a heart of LOVE for GOD.That is what SHOULD motivate us to GIVE today.Love for GOD and concern for the needs of others less fortunate than ourselves.Most of us are truly blessed....thus we need to "give of ourselves" as God directs us.THAT is what the early NT church was doing!

    Blessings,Greg Sr.
     
  8. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    BTW,I don't think the term "hogwash" is particularly useful OR edifying as used here.Use a little grace guys...it goes farther.

    Greg Sr.
     
  9. bgoc bryan

    bgoc bryan New Member

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    Alcott, I have never had to make that kind of choice. I try to buget 10% every month from the start. I can't say I have paid my tithe every month. The best persoanl example I can give is I was having trouble with my truck an knew I would have to put it in the shop that week. I paid my tithe Sunday and I was pretty sure that would leave me short for the truck repairs. The next day at work I found out we were getting an unexpected bonus. The month was tight but most are. In my case God has always given me enough and put people in my life to help. I can't make a strong case from scripture to say every beliver is required to tithe, but I can make a strong case for Bryan to tithe.
     
  10. faithgirl46

    faithgirl46 Active Member
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    I totally agree with you.
    Faithgirl
     
  11. JamesBell

    JamesBell New Member

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    Bryan, I think you hit the nail on the head. You may not be able to make a case for everyone else (and I don't believe anyone can, we must use some deductive reasoning to come to either conclusion) but you feel you know what you are supposed to do. Personally, I believe that every Christian should give their best to their church. If this is 10 percent, then so be it. If it happens to be 50 percent, then all the better. However, I do think that a little faith goes much further than a few dollars.
     
  12. benz

    benz New Member

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    God gave you the money- Give money to support the Pastors, the poor and Ministries- Aka support Your Father's Work so His will can be done on earth-
     
  13. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Posted by Greg Perry Sr. BTW,I don't think the term "hogwash" is particularly useful OR edifying as used here.Use a little grace guys...it goes farther.

    Sorry for saying Hogwash.
     
  14. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    "Give"?
    What money most of us have is the result of a net gain from an employment contract, a business with which we occupy ourselves, or a gain in some capital. If God is in the business of giving money, then He can give the money to "the pastors, the poor and ministries." And if we can bar His will from being done on earth because we hold in our wallets the green permission for so doing, then it's too bad He is not sovereign.
     
  15. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    My best argument for would be this: tithing was established in the OT and never abated in the NT, and the early church practiced it.

    My best argument against: it is never taught in the NT, and the discontinuity in the covenental relationships between old Israel and New Israel.
     
  16. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Soulman wrote:
    Just for discussion:
    1. I've never liked the argument that says "I can't tithe because of my bills." Well, don't buy that fourth TV set on a credit card charging 22% interest and stop buying new cars and get a house you can actually afford. [​IMG]

    2. Where do we get the Scriptural basis that the Storehouse=the church?

    Thanks!

    [ July 27, 2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  17. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Posted by TomVols: My best argument for would be this: tithing was established in the OT and never abated in the NT, and the early church practiced it.

    Giving was taught in the N.T. Tithing was not. My problem is that if you are right Tom, why isn't it practised as it was in the O.T.?

    Posted by TomVols: I've never liked the argument that says "I can't tithe because of my bills." Well, don't buy that fourth TV set on a credit card charging 22% interest and stop buying new cars and get a house you can actually afford.

    There are many that live extravagantly for sure. That is between them and God. Although your argument is logical, it only matters as far as giving is concerned. There are many families that just can't make ends meet. These arguments are purly an issue of the heart. When a person is gluttoneous in any way it is sin.

    Malachi 3:10
    Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

    This is the verse used to justify storehouse tithing. Some teach that tithing was carried over from the O.T. They further extrapilate that the church replaces the temple. Funny. The bible teaches that we replace the temple.
     
  18. Bluefalcon

    Bluefalcon Member

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    If the principle of tithing is so evil, why did Jacob vow to tithe of all that God gave him even 500 years before the Law was given? And, BTW, the church and temple have much in common, especially in hermeneutical principles, even in the principle of giving (cf. 1 Cor. 9:13-14). Paul says the "Lord" commanded this, so was he referring to the LORD of the OT (Gk. KURIOS, as in LXX), or Jesus Christ through some special revelation? If the former, it appears he was referring to the OT commandments given by God regarding giving to the Lord through the mode of the temple, but now applying that through the church and saying that the Lord ordained or ordered (i.e. commanded) it to be such.

    Cheers, Bluefalcon
     
  19. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    Not one word you said Bluefalcon substantiates tithing in the N.T. Giving is N.T.
     
  20. elijah_lives

    elijah_lives New Member

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    Giving is between you and the Lord, only. I do not even like the collection plate, because it is quasi-public. Didn't Jesus teach us to do these things in private? (Matt. 6:4). I left the Church of Christ over doctrinal differences, but their mode of collecting was in a lock box near the door, where one could drop in their contribution privately.

    As for "giving 'til it hurts", it would be real, in my case. I have little income, and HUGE medical bills...
     
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