President Bush

Out of interest what do people think of the allegations of the writer Micheal Moore. In case you haven't read his stuff I'll summarise (badly) some of his writing. Most of his allegations are backed up by articles from the New York Post, Washington Post, Newsweek, CNN, The Times, The Observer etc.

- Went AWOl for a year while in service
- Jebs wife gave loads of black voters criminal records who did not have them, consequently they could not vote
- Counted votes that came in after the election deadline
- Met in Texas with members of the Taliban to organise a pipeline across Afganistan prior to Sept 11th. These Taliban who were previously potential business partners became enemies.
- Organised a plane to fly out members of the bin Laden family and Saudi contacts straight after Sept 11th, while the rest of the US tried in vain to get flights. The FBI was not permitted to question members of the bin Laden family.
- For twenty years the Bush family oil companies have been funded in part by the bin Laden family.
- Refuesed to sign the Kyoto agreement on cutting down emmisions.
- Refused to reduce arsnic levels in drinking water.
- Refused to make auto manufacturers increasae petrol efficiency.
- Cut funding to the education system

His cabinet it is claimed is run by CEOs from big oul and pharmeceutical companies. So the US will not get what its citizens need rather it will get what the big oil and drug companies want.

- Dick Cheney. until recently CEO of Halliburton Inc., the giant oilfield services firm that has been making money and trading with Iraq, despite the sanctions, through its subsidiaries Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump
- J Ashcroft. sponsor of last year's Senate bill to extend the patent on the super-profitable allergy pill Clariton, owned by the giant pharmaceutical firm Schering-Plough, which gave him $50,000 for his last Senate campaign. He also got $1.7 million from oil, chemical, and paper companies that were grateful for Ashcroft's opposition to funding environmental enforcement, voting for rollback of clean water protections, and letting mining companies dump cyanide and other wastes on public lands

- Gale Norton. formally with the Mountain States Legal Foundation, an anti-environmental group funded by oil companies. Prominent member of "property rights" groups funded by Boise Cascade, DuPont, and Louisiana Pacific; national chairwoman of the Coalition for Republican Environmental Advocates, funded by the American Forest Paper Association, Amoco, ARCO, the Chemical Manufacturers Association, and Ford

- E Chow. an investment banker and corporate director, former vice president of Bank of America and board member for Northwest Airlines, Dole Food, Clorox, and Columbia/HCA Health Care

- N Mineta. orporate VP for Lockheed Martin; also former chairman of the House Transportation Committee, where his major contributors were the American Trucking Association, Boeing, General Electric, Greyhound, Lockheed, Northwest Airlines, UPS, Union Pacific, and United Airlines

- P O'Neill. CEO of Alcoa, the aluminum giant, and previously CEO of International Paper Co., and on the boards of Eastman Kodak and Lucent Technologies

It strikes me that if all the above is true, or even if 25% of it is true then Mr Bush had better sort his house out, in view of Isiaih chapter 1. But like I said these are allegations of one man, and because I am uninformed they are not mine.

So if you have direct info to the contrary that can be sourced from a reputable paper that would be great.

Thanks

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

jbarner,


Posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
Do you believe that there was a terrorist attack on 9/11/01? Of course you do, because you believed what the media told you.

No, Jim not because the media told me, I witnessed it on live TV. Are you trying to say it wasn't a terrorist attack? Just what are you trying to say here, that the American public is victim of some great hoax perpatrated by the media? And if you mosey on up the road apiece you will notice that there is a drastic change in the New York City skyline.

 

There comes a time when you have to decide to believe the President. For some of us here, that time will never come. Hey, I voted for Howard Phillips (Constitution Party), but I trust the president. He knows things that we (the Public) can't know for national security reasons. If we can't trust him then we need to elect someone who we can, now let's see who we legitimately have to choose from? Hillary CLinton, would you trust her more? How about Dick Gephardt? AL Gore? Joseph Biden? Al Lieberman? Carol Mosely-Braun? Or certainly we can trust the Rev. Al Sharpton, he is a minister right? Ok ebough sarcasm... but really, Howard Phillips is not going to get elected. Go ahead and vote for him, as I said, I did, but we have an elected President. It is time to stop back biting (and front biting and side biting) the man. I'd hate to be the dog catcher in a government that gets the kind of support we give the President.
One last thought, why are the French not with us? They must see the same things and judge Saddam not to be dangerous. So it gets asked over and over why should we trust our President and not Chirac? Let's look at history, when Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini were next door, they didn't see danger. When Kaiser Wilhelm II was next door, they didn't see danger. Heck they didn't see the Prussians coming in 1870. The last wise leader of France was Charlemagne. No, I say take the word of the Texan before that of the French.

[ March 14, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: mark ]

 

IMO, you are wrong. Simply by saying MR . Bush for one thing. You are living in the USA, therefore he should be called President Bush. He is YOUR president, like it or not.

Who are you that the President of the United States has to prove himself to? Would you believe him if he tried? I don't think so because you plain don't like him.

President Bush has stated that he is a born again Christian. He doesn't have to prove that to you anymore than you have to prove YOUR salvation to anyone else.

As far as Bill Clinton, President Bush would have to do much to lower his morals to what the former president did and don't forget, Clinton did not apologize for anything until he 'got caught' and then lied, under oath, during his hearings.

In a time of war, such as now, we need to be praying for our President; after all, if he is wrong....so goes the country!

JMHO,
Sue

 

I see none of you have endeavoured to refute Moore's allegations; I assume therefore that you don't take issue with them

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Michael Moore is an anti-American scumbag. I wouldn't dignify him with a response.

 

So you dont' have one then?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

I've refuted him several times on hannity.com.

I'm just done fooling with people like him and those who would trash my country. If he wants to bite the hand that feeds him, that's fine, but I'm going to go out and make America great rather than waste my time.

 

I've tried to access the Hannity discussion boards but without success. Do you have a specific link you can direct me to?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

No. The mods there have been trying for weeks to get rid of the anti-American trolls and are just now making progress.

 

So far, you haven't refuted any of the claims. All you've done is point me to a website that I can't access. Please either refute the points or accept they are correct

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Matt,

I quit taking dares when I was about eleven.

Obviously, you (a foreigner) and I (an American) have different views about my country.

I disagree with Moore and I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone. If you feel so strongly about us, then feel free to stay home.

 

Dear Mike

I am quite happy to stay at home. I just wish the Americans would too...

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Dear Matt and Mike,

I think when a subject as volitile as War and Terrorism is all we can think of...we forget to be Christians towards each other. Emotions are high...and we forget what the Bible says about how to treat our fellow believers.

I am an English American... By blood I am more English than anything else...but I am also as American as any American can get. Seeing an Englishman and an American carry on this way is heartbreaking. Can't we as Christians do better than this?
*******************************************************************

I personally am glad that any mention of God is uttered in government today. The United States of America was founded on a belief in God allmighty. The fact that anyone, least of all our President can utter his belief in God, knowing full well that a vast majority of this country has turned it's back on God is a blessing in and of itself.

Furthermore, I believe that people are entitled to dislike who our government officials are. But being disrespectful of the titles they have earned shows a disrespect for their own citizenship. I didn't like Bill Clinton...but I never called him Mr. Clinton. It's unfortunate when a president makes you hang your head in shame for what the rest of the world sees in him. Nevertheless...I didn't make any appologies to other nations for President Clinton who I felt shamed us as a nation by his wanton deceipt and immorality. President Bush however is a president that does not make me ashamed. I hope in my heart of hearts that this will always continue to be so.

God bless all of you. I hope that you will listen to what I have said. And remember that you are Christians. I would hope that you would make more effort for this to be seen in your actions and your words. Rather than by my giving you the benifit of the doubt on good faith alone as I have just done.

God is watching us.

In Christ,
Laurenda Smithson

P.S. I didn't reply to Mr. Moore's remarks, because I have never heard of him. I appologize for my ignorance.

 

While I have enjoyed some of Michael Moore’s films and his television show, I don’t make the mistake of believing everything he says…

I’m not going to even try to answer all of these allegations because I do not have the necessary information at hand, but I know enough about some of these allegations to very strongly suspect that the others are not worth the bandwidth they are using.

Military votes were counted for all candidates that came in for an appointed time after the election. It was a fuzzy issue in election law and it had not really been an issue before – except when the vote was very close in this election. And just to state the obvious, Bush and his team were not counting the votes – there were appointed teams and monitors from both major political parties at the vote-counting sites.

Um… What’s the problem here? The Taliban were the government of the country and U.S. business interests wanted to build a pipeline. Al Queda had not attacked our homeland at that point.

“Fly out” from where to where? What is this supposed to mean? Don’t you think that there might be some sort of interest in dealing with the bin Laden family and Saudi contacts since both Saudis and Omasa are behind the terrorist attacks on the U.S.?

And the fact that the U.S. military flew their planes while commercial aircraft were grounded shouldn’t be difficult to understand – even for a grade schooler.

Because he believed the agreement was flawed.

This was a created campaign issue… I work for a company that has more than 100 years of municipal water treatment experience, and the levels of arsenic in the drinking water are incredibly low – far too low to cause any health problems. The legislation would simply create an unrealistic standard for municipalities to meet. It was an unreasonable standard put forth by Clinton so that Bush would have to oppose it.

Laws are already in place that force automakers to continue to make automobiles more fuel efficient. Not placed new burdens on automobile manufacturers (which make automobiles far more expensive) is not the same thing as “refusing” to do it.

Bush has gathered around him people he knows and trusts. He knows a lot of people from the oil business – so what? And Bush “runs” his cabinet, for your information.

Yeah whatever… Obviously there can be no honest people in the oil or drug business.

The sanctions do not prevent the sale of Iraq’s oil for food and humanitarian goods. Since oil wells and pumping systems have to be maintained, don’t you think that oil field supply companies might sell Iraq their products.

This is really getting silly…

Not exactly an oil or drug man, is he? What is allegedly wrong with this person? Too successful?

Yet another non-oil/drug person. Why is this person bad?

Ditto above.

It strikes me that we have a but of irrational allegations thrown together to give the appearance of a conspiracy, then fed to a willing public who is looking for an excuse to despise the President. Now don’t get me wrong, there are some things I don’t like about George W. myself, but these allegations are just stupid.

Michael Moore is a professional rabble-rouser who sometimes forgets that he destroys his credibility every time he makes allegations like this. He had come a long way from his groundbreaking movie, “Roger and Me”, but he really hasn’t had a big movie since his first success. He has to remain controversial to stay on the cultural radar, but he’s going for cheap shots instead of something more substantial. I sometimes get the idea that he doesn’t actually care about the things he rages against (for instance, overseas child labor in his movie, “The Big One”) because he goes for the quick fix (demanding that Nike not hire children instead of doing something more productive like providing an education and better working conditions for child laborers).

My info is not from specific newspapers, but mostly an exercise in common sense.

 

Somehow I posted twice.

 

Oh, are you talking about Michael Moore the director and B-movie actor who was recently publisizing his most recent documentary on Guns in American titled "Bowling for Columbine on the Oprah Winfrey show?

Is there a specific reason why the opinions expressed by this person would be given so much credence on this particular subject?

Or are every opinion voiced by the movie industry taken as valuable, where government and politics are concerned?

Laurenda

 

I believe that's the Michael Moore that was referenced... I don't know of any other Michael Moore that has expressed similar views... But I could be wrong.

 

Michael Moore is a poster boy for the left over here in the US. The only point he has ever made on which I agree with him is his gripe about Corporate America.

Now with all due respect to what the topic of this thread is about, which is NOT Michael Moore -
The time for senseless barbs, jibes, and bickering should be over. The time for debate over this war is over.

We are now on the brink of something very serious here.

I would like to remind you there are at least 40,000 British troops fighting right alongside the US military, most of them just kids, 19, 20, 21 years old - to be exposed to not only the horrors of war, but possibly to chemical, biological, or even nuclear missles.

Perhaps ALL Christians would do well to pray for our troops from our respective countries. They are fighting shoulder to shoulder, brother by brother, and some, perhaps many, will never see their families again.