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Preterism remains false - Did Jesus lie? NO!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Nov 30, 2017.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    In another thread, I stated that every prophecy jesus made MUST come to pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in the original languages, while someone else asked me for PROOF. Well, here's that proof.

    As Christians, we know Jesus did not commit a single sin while He lived as a man. And a Scriptural test for a true prophet of God's is that every prophecy he makes must come to pass exactly as prophesied. Well, if Jesus spoke one word of prophecy that's untrue, that would've been a sin! thus, I believe every word of His prophecies to the letter!

    And His prophecies also include those He gave to Paul, such as in 2 Thess.2, and the ones He gave to John in the Revelation.

    And the fact is, the eschatological prophecies he gave have NOT yet come to pass. that's very-obvious! But I believe they WILL be fulfilled to the letter, same as those other prophecies which HAVE been fulfilled.

    We have gone thru six complete threads, and NO preterist has offered any proof those events have already transpired THEY have the burden of proof, & they've completely failed to meet it!
     
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  2. Rant

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    About 100,000.000 so called Christians are preterists , Its a lie from the pits of Hell and they all believe this lie Denying basic facts and promises of the gospel proves preterism to be anti-Christian heresy that cannot be tolerated. 1. It is another gospel, or rather a devilish bewitching (II Cor 11:3-4,13-15; Gal 1:6-9; 3:1). 2. Heresy is a departure from the accepted and established teaching of scripture, which depends on the faith and doctrine of the evaluator; no creed has ever accepted preterism. 3. The true followers of Jesus maintain the testimony of Jesus (Rev 1:2,9; 12:17; 19:10). 4. Christianity has foundational axioms that cannot be compromised (Heb 5:12; 6:1-3), for the churches of Jesus Christ are the pillar and ground of the truth (I Tim 3:15; Jude 1:3). 5. Many cannot believe preterists are serious about their ridiculous denial of basic facts and promises of the gospel, but remember how Satan totally reversed God’s word in Eden. 6. The simplest and wisest course is to create an irreducible minimum refuting them, which is the fewest events the Bible declares must occur, but which did not occur in 70 A.D. 7. Inspired scripture declares that heresies like preterism arise in churches for true saints to be identified by surviving the controversy and excluding the heretics (I Cor 11:19). Preterists deny the final and great day of judgment of all men (John 5:28-29; Rom 14:9-11; II Cor 5:9-11; Heb 9:27-28; Rev 20:11-15; II Tim 4:1,8; I Pet 4:5; Matt 7:21-23; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:30-31; 24:25). 1. While preterists are creative to get rid of divine judgment (if we had denied the gospel of Jesus Christ as they do, we might seek to do the same!), we must submit to scripture’s revelation, rather than take such a holy and terrible event and eliminate it by mysticism. 2. They erase the great Day of Judgment from the gospel much like the JW’s do with hellPreterism denies the gospel promise Jesus will return in the very same literal, physical, visible way He left (Acts 1:9-11; Phil 3:20-21; Col 3:4; I Cor 1:7; 15:23; I Thess 1:10; 2:19; 3:13; 4:15-17; 5:23; II Thess 1:7; I Tim 6:14; II Tim 4:8; Titus 2:13; Heb 9:27-28; I Pet 5:4; John 14:1-3; I John 2:28; 3:2; Rev 1:7). 1. This is hard for most to believe, but preterists adamantly maintain Jesus will never return. 2. If they say His second coming was in 70 A.D., no one saw Him or noted the event, thus history denies their claims, for the clear promise is visible, fantastic, worldwide events
     
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  3. Rant

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    Preterists deny the final and great day of judgment of all men (John 5:28-29; Rom 14:9-11; II Cor 5:9-11; Heb 9:27-28; Rev 20:11-15; II Tim 4:1,8; I Pet 4:5; Matt 7:21-23; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:30-31; 24:25).Preterists deny the renovation of this sin-cursed universe for your eternal inheritance (II Pet 3:1-14; Rom 8:18-23; Ps 102:2527; Heb 1:10-12; Rev 20:11; 21:1; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; Matt 5:18; 24:35). Preterists say death was destroyed in 70 A.D., though you know better just by remembering the last funeral you attended. No matter what the millennium is (Rev 20:1-10), they jam the 1000-year event between His first and second coming in the first century. Preterists deny the judgment of the devil and his angels, since they say it happened in 70 A.D., which we know it did not. Preterists believe and teach that not until 70 A.D. was the Law removed and redemption complete, ascribing these and related acts to the second coming of Christ in the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel, Paul, Peter, and John did not limit their prophecies to the first century, so Preterists hunt for socalled timing verses to use as mauls to force all their prophecies into 70 A.D. Relying on sound bites like shortly, high time, at hand, nigh, ready, and quickly, they ignore the fact that these words or phrases have little specific time meaning or time limitation. O.T. prophecies with socalled preterist timing expressions clearly require no imminency of fulfillment.Preterists miss prophetic language. Prophetic language, often poetic or apocalyptic, may use time symbolically, as it uses everything else symbolicall Preterists miss the eternal perspectivePreterists miss prophetic purposePreterists miss extended prophecies
     
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  4. Rant

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    Preterist timing verses reject God’s time warning. In a context about timing of the Lord’s return, the Holy Spirit gave one key rule that preterists rejectPreterists neglect timed prophecies. Instead of vague sound bites, the Bible has timed prophecies of seventy weeks, prerequisite events, 1260 days, an existing generation, historical reference points, etc., but Preterists slight themPreterists ignore timing statements that oppose them. They are quick and thorough to find only those sound bites that serve their first century imminency.Preterists must time Revelation before 70 A.D. Though the Holy Spirit gave no details about its date other than John’s lifetime, the Preterist interpretation of Revelation totally depends on the speculation of early authorship.Preterists are scoffers counting the Lord slack. Peter warned about scoffers in the last days that would mock His promised coming and count Him slack, since they would not understand the Lord’s timing perspective (II Pet 3:3,8-9).Preterists assume last days must mean today or tomorrow. They cannot see this final dispensation of the New Testament to be the last days in its entirety
     
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  5. Rant

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    Preterists should start in Daniel. Jesus said Daniel gave understanding for prophetic interpretation (Matt 24:15), and Daniel’s timing would correct their efforts to force Paul’s, Peter’s, and John’s prophecies into the first century. 1. It is frustrating to meet novice Bible readers starting in the N.T. to learn Bible prophecy. 2. Note the timing phrases from the O.T. shown above, which correct preterist assumptions. 3. There is so much they could learn from the book of Daniel to open the N.T. prophecies. 4. The fulfillment of prophecies pertaining to Babylon, Persia, and Greece are very helpful. 5. The day-year option is proven to be a valid interpretation by the 70 weeks (Dan 9:24-27). 6. It is an option and not a requirement by 2300 literal days of Antiochus IV (Dan 8:13-14). 7. If Daniel has a prophecy occurring after 70 A.D., preterism fails by its own axiom; this is especially true if the event after 70 A.D. is Jesus Christ’s coming, Day of Judgment, etc.
    B. Revelation is the last place to go. Paul’s man of sin and John’s beast and whore were identified 500 years earlier by the beloved prophet. 1. Daniel’s fulfilled symbols are the Spirit’s inspired school for prophetic interpretation. 2. Beasts, heads, and horns for Babylon, Persia, and Greece help interpreting Revelation. 3. The day-year option, useful for considering length of prophecies, is valid from Daniel 9.
    C. Daniel’s prophecies cover all. He detailed Israel’s future to their final scattering in 70 A.D. (chapters 8-12). He outlined Gentile world history affecting the saints of God to Jesus Christ’s second coming (chapters 2 and 7). 1. His detailed prophecy of Alexander and Antiochus IV are within Greek history (Dan 8). 2. His 70-weeks prophecy has a very clear start date and last week events (Dan 9:24-27). 3. Daniel’s last vision has a very clear beginning date and ending date (Daniel 11:1-2; 12:7). 4. Nebuchadnezzar’s image and beasts from the sea are for Gentiles (Dan 2:31-45; 7:1-11), as Nebuchadnezzar had as much interest in Israel’s future as preterists do with the truth.
    D. Daniel 7 identified Paul’s man of sin and John’s beast. Solitary authorship of the Bible by the Holy Spirit requires unified scripture; prophecies will agree closely, according to the first rule of inspired hermeneutics (II Peter 1:19-21). 1. There are not three great enemies of the saints – there is only one, prophesied three ways. 2. This study cannot deal in depth with all of Daniel’s prophecies or even all of this one. 3. For the best intro to Dan 7, Great Prophecies of the Bible.
    E. Daniel’s four beasts are easy (Dan 7:1-7). A beast is no more than a kingdom, nation, or empire. The four are Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. 1. There is not the slightest justification for any variation in these four, though infidels try. 2. Media-Persia is not to be divided – it is always viewed together (Dan 2:39; 7:5-6; 8:3). 3. The little horn of chapter 8 is Greek (8:21-25) and that of chapter 9 is Roman (7:6-8).
     
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  6. Rant

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    What this Garbage really boils down to {From the pit of Hell} theology is >>>
    Israel
    Modern day Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with Bible prophecy. Jesus adamantly declared that the kingdom of God would be taken away from the Jews in A.D. 70.

    43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.” 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. (Matthew 21:43-45)

    The nation that the kingdom of God was given to is the church consisting of all believers. Speaking to believers in the first century, Peter said:

    9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; (1Peter 2:9)
    There is no longer any distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

    12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. (Romans 10:12)

    The true Israel today is the church, not the nation of Israel formed in 1948. Salvation is covenantal/spiritual, not physical/literal.
    But this is far from BiblicaL>>> Israel is Gods chosen people today and forever, The Church and Israel walk two different paths ion Bible Prophecy!! That They Deny!!!!
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The matter is actually quite simple - full prets believe ALL eschatological prophecies, including Jesus' return, have already been fulfilled, while partial prets believe all have been fulfilled except Jesus' return.

    ( Most of us consider the "eschatological" events to be the happenings that'll surround Jesus' return.)

    I, & many others, have asked the preterists here to provide PROOF/EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATION those events have already occurred, and we've not received any believable answers.

    The prets here seem to be reasonably-intelligent people, which makes me wonder how they could believe such trash, when there's not one quark of evidence in history those events have already occurred.
     
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  8. Rant

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    MMMM>> I would say about 100,000,000 Christians have no Idea about bible prophecy and just go with the flow{What they are taught} and most have preterist underpinning
     
    #8 Rant, Nov 30, 2017
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  9. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
     
  10. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Actually no one else asks us to PROVE that anything happened, thats just your broken record.

    You are the only one that sez the beast hasta come with his deputy the false prophet.

    I asked you to PROVE a literal physical millennium that you haven't yet either.

    Or what the Day of The Lord is, In 2nd Peter 3 and 1st Thess 4 and when it happens.
     
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  11. Rant

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    Actually no one else asks us to PROVE that anything happened, thats just your broken record.

    You are the only one that sez the beast hasta come with his deputy the false prophet.

    I asked you to PROVE a literal physical millennium that you haven't yet either.>>>> LUV IT<<<<
     
  12. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Do you even know what you are arguing?

    Who doesn't belief this?
    Besides futurists.
     
  13. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Explain to me the 70 weeks please :Wink
     
  14. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    What?
     
  15. Rant

    Rant Member

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    >>LUV IT<<
     
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  16. Rant

    Rant Member

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    I Luv when I hit a nerve! {Spiritual Nerve}
     
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  17. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    You think you hit my nerve? :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
     
  18. Revelation 20:5

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    Wow Rant! you have a lot of stuff to cover and I don't know where to begin. I'll start off with this. Symbolism is impossible to prove in the scientific sense. It's like a giant word puzzle that we are all trying to put together. The translators weren't perfect and I'm convinced we don't have all of scripture. In other words there are books that were left out of the Canon. As a matter of fact The Book of Revelation almost didn't make it into the Canon. Based upon what we have, I think the evidence overwhelmingly supports past fulfillment of eschatology. I was a dispensational futurist just like yourself. I switched in 2006 after discovering Preterism in 2004. It took me 2 years of study before I became 100% convinced. One thing you mentioned in your 1st post was this:

    "Heresy is a departure from the accepted and established teaching of scripture, which depends on the faith and doctrine of the evaluator; no creed has ever accepted preterism."


    Dispensationalism, which I believe to be a false doctrine, was concocted by John Nelson Darby in the early 1800's. It was not taught by the early church. I believe Historicism is the longest running established "system" as an explanation of eschatology. Dispensationalism is relatively new if you consider the entire history of the Church. So based on your definition of heresy, Dispensationalism fits perfectly. Also you stated that no creed has ever accepted preterism. That is false. Here is an excerpt from Eusebius who was an early Christian pioneer. We're talking 4th century. Here is what he wrote in his Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch. 5:

    "But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by
    a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to
    leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella.
    And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from
    Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of
    Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at
    length overtook those who had committed such outrages against
    Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of
    impious men. But the number of calamities which every where fell

    upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the
    inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of
    men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by
    famine, and by other forms of death innumerable, all these things, as
    well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the
    cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that
    fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the
    general course of the whole war, as well as its particular
    occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation,
    proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so
    celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and
    final destruction by fire, all these things any one that wishes may
    find accurately described in the history written by Josephus."


    Eusebius connected the calamities which fell upon the inhabitants of Judea in 70 AD with the abomination of desolation proclaimed by the prophets. There it is in black and white. 4th Century!
     
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  19. Rant

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    In other words there are books that were left out of the Canon. As a matter of fact The Book of Revelation almost didn't make it into the Canon. MMM> The Book of Giants, The Book of Enock, the Book of Jubilees! It is not for us to say why they where not in the bible but the Catholics still have a fit and hate the book of Revelations and Deny it to their core!
     
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  20. Revelation 20:5

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    Not all Catholics hate the Book of Revelation. I'm not a Catholic but I have Catholic friends. There are futurist and preterist Catholics just like Protestants.

    Since you mentioned Revelation, lets discuss Revelation chapter 1. Have you ever considered this verse? Rev. 1;1

    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Did you notice that God gave John the Revelation of Jesus to show his servants(the 7 churches in Asia Minor) the things which shortly must come to pass?
     
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