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Preterists still won't give up...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Dec 8, 2017.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    First, I see the millenium mentioned in Revelation, so I believe it's real. Second there's simply NO PROOF for preterism. The events preterists SAY have already occurred, are entirely-absent from history. I believe that's well within the bounds of orthodoxy, given the fact of many LITERAL fulfillments of prophecy.

    And I don't believe most who hold a false doctrine are out of Jesus' fold. I believe Satan can deceive believers as well as non-believers, the only differences being the subject matter of the deception. Being human, those people have read some book or heard some demagogue, & for whatever reason, believed those sources correct.

    I believe SCRIPTURE is our highest earthly authority in all matters of faith/worship.
    That's why I don't believe any doctrine of faith /worship not found in Scripture.
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That is the Reformation creed of Sola Scriptura, which I also hold fast to. Scripture alone!

    Of course, when two brothers claim "Sola Scripture" as the final arbiter of all matters of faith and practice, and yet they still disagree, what then? In that case, both brothers must follow scripture as their conscience dictates.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And, of course, Scripture isn't actually wrong - MAN'S PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS are often wrong.
     
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  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    And this is why we must remain humble even when we are totally convinced on a doctrinal issue that is not essential to our salvation.

    Have a blessed Lord's day.
     
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  5. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    What is your opinion of partial preterism?
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Right.

    All I can do is keep requesting that those who believe false doctrines present EVIDENCE to support them. or that I present SCRIPTURE proving them false.
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe partial preterism is as false as full preterism, and here's SCRIPTURAL proof it's false -

    Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    No one knows more about Jesus' return than JESUS HIMSELF!

    So, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue!

    But He won't be one nanosecond overdue! Truth is, the great trib has simply not yet occurred. So, partial preterism is as false as full preterism.[/COLOR]
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Preterism is in error, however, Just two quick questions brother, to yourself, if you will please, on your understanding of that text and what you have stated in regards to it, that I might understand your position.

    What I read in the KJB text at Matthew 24:29 is, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...", meaning we need to consider what the "those days" are of the previous verses and the when [timing] thereof, and therefore we can then see the "Immediately" [not associated with the actual 2nd Advent, but with the events leading directly to it] following events. ...

    How do you understand the "great tribulation" in Matthew 24? Do you see any importance in the Matthew 24:3 KJB vs questions?

    Here is how I understand it, in brief:

    ... Afterwards, then follows several signs in the earth/heaven itself, namely, "shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven ...", which is paralleled in several other verses, namely:

    [1,290, AD 508 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 12:11 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

    [1,335, AD 508 unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 12:12 KJB - "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
    Revelation 14:13 KJB - "... Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth ..."

    [70 Weeks, 62 + 7 + 1 [1/2 + 1/2], 457 BC unto AD 27 [Baptism], unto AD 31 [Cross], unto AD 34 [Stephen], then the remaining 1810, unto AD 1843/44]
    Daniel 9:24-27 KJB - Whole ...

    [5 Anti-typical feast Months, AD 31-100, unto AD 1833/34, Day of Trumpets, from Pentecost; Leviticus 23; Woe 1, Woe 2 and Woe 3, encomapssing the whole 'Exodus', 'Wilderness' unto 'Canaan']
    Revelation 9:5 KJB - "... five months ..."
    Revelatin 9:6 KJB - "... those days ..."
    Revelation 9:10 KJB - "... five months ..."

    [1,260, 42 months, time, times and 1/2 time; AD 538 unto AD 1798]
    Daniel 7:25 KJB - "... a time and times and the dividing of time." ["wear out the saints"]
    Daniel 12:7 KJB - "... a time, times, and a half ..." ["scatter the power of the holy people"]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... the tribulation of those days ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "...that tribulation ..." [reference to Daniel]
    Luke 21:24 KJB - "... the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
    Revelation 6:11 KJB - "... killed as they were ..." [two groups, past and future, see Rev. 20:4 KJB]
    Revelation 11:2 KJB - "... given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
    Revelation 11:3 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threscroe days ..."
    Revelation 12:6 KJB - "... a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
    Revelation 12:14 KJB - "... a time, and times, and a half a time ..." ["persectued", see vs 13]
    Revelation 13:5 KJB - " ... forty and two months." ["power" was given to "him" [1st [sea] Beast, Rev. 13]]

    [Great Lisbon Earthquake, AD 1755, November 1]
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... a great earthquake ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... the sun ... shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... shall the sun be darkened ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... the sun shall be darkened ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "And there shall be signs in the sun ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "The sun shall be turned into darkness ..."
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair ..."

    [Great Dark Day, AD 1780, May 19]
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the moon shall be dark ..."
    Joel 2:31 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before the great and terrible day of the LORD come]
    Matthew 24:29 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light ..."
    Mark 13:24 KJB - "... and the moon shall not give her light,"
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the moon ..."
    Acts 2:20 KJB - "... and the moon into blood ..." [before that great and notable day of the Lord come]]
    Revelation 6:12 KJB - "... and the moon became as blood;"

    [Reign of Terror, French Revolution, AD 1793 unto AD 1797/8; 'spiritually Egypt and Sodom']
    Revelation 11:9 KJB - "... three days and an half ..."
    Revelation 11:11 KJB - "... after three days and a half ..."

    [Great Leonid Meteor Shower, AD 1833, November 13]
    Mathew 24:29 KJB - "... and the stars shall fall from heaven ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "And the stars of heaven shall fall ..."
    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and in the stars ..."
    Revelation 6:13 KJB - "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth ..."

    [Day of Atonement, AD 1844, October 22; began in 457 BC, Ezra 7, Daniel 9, etc]
    Daniel 8:14 KJB - "... Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
    Revelation 9:15 KJB - "... prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year ..." [Rev. 14:6-7; Leviticus 23:26-32; 1 Kings 8:2; Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc]
    Revelation 10:6 KJB - "... that there should be time no longer ..." [no more prophetic time as a test]

    Luke 21:25 KJB - "... and upon earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;"

    Isaiah 13:7 KJB - "Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:"
    Isaiah 13:8 KJB - "And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrow shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth ..."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "Men's heart's failing them from fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth ..."

    Isaiah 13:10 KJB - "For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine."
    Joel 2:10 KJB - "... and the stars shall withdraw their shining:"
    Joel 3:15 KJB - "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining."

    [The Close of probation for mankind in receiving and assimilating the Everlasting Gospel]

    Daniel 12:1 KJB -"And at that time shall Michael stand up ... there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time ..."
    Luke 13:25 KJB - "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without ..."
    Revelation 10:7 KJB - "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished ..."
    Revelation 22:11 KJB - "He that is unjust, let him be unjest still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

    [7 Last plagues, Wrath of God poured out]
    Job 14:13 KJB - "... thy wrath ..."
    Revelation 11:18 KJB - "... and thy wrath is come ..." [Revelation 16:2-17 KJB]

    Jeremiah 25:30 KJB - "... The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth."
    Joel 2:11 KJB - "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army ..."
    Joel 3:16 KJB - "The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, utter his voice from Jerusalem ..." [New Jerusalem in Heaven]

    Joel 3:16 KJB - "... and the heavens and the earth shall shake ..."
    Mark 13:25 KJB - "... and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."
    Luke 21:26 KJB - "... for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."
    Hebrews 12:26 KJB - "... I shake not the earth only, but also heaven:"

    1 Kings 18:44 KJB - "... ariseth a little cloud out of the sea, like a man's hand ..."
    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "And then shall the appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ..."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together ..."

    Revelation 16:18 KJB - "... a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

    Revelation 6:14 KJB - "... and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
    Revelation 16:20 KJB - "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

    Matthew 24:30 KJB - "... and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
    Mark 13:26 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
    Luke 21:27 KJB - "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and glory."
    Revelation 6:15 KJB - "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    (Snipped for brevity, to confine it to one post)



    First, I don't use the KJV (not "KJB") except as a study version, along with several other older versions for study, as it's a "Model T " version, not in our language style, with quite a few goofs & booboos, I. E. "Easter" in Acts 12;4, etc.

    That aside, I view the great trib as Jesus mentions it in the Olivet Discourse - a series of disasters so bad that if He doesn't cut them short, no flesh(man or animal) will survive. Nothing like that has ever happened since man has existed.

    Jesus goes into more detail about that trib in the Revelation, and indeed it's easy to see those disasters will imperil all people.

    As for the great cosmological disturbance, the context of the verses shows it'll be one series of events. All of them could be brought on by widespread volcanic activity with earthquakes. And. of course, "falling stars" are meteors.

    Now, while similar events have occurred in history, the great trib has NOT, and this disturbance will immediately follow that trib, with Jesus returning as it occurs.

    Now, WHAT ARE 'THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS"?

    Answer: That's an old expression for the apparent courses taken thru the sky by the various celestial bodies. For a long time, men believed these objects revolved around the earth because we don't feel the earth, and us along with it, rotating. Apparently, God will alter the earth's rotation, axial tilt, etc. so the cosmic procession will not be the same as it now is.

    I believe most Scripture is QUITE-LITERAL, and what symbolism & metaphors there are, always refer to literal objects, people, or events. If Scripture were not so precise, man could make anything he wanted out of it.

    My position is that the prophesied events will occur PRECISELY AS WRITTEN in the original languages. There are quite a few biblical prophecies thus fulfilled, such as the destruction of jerusalem & the temple, or the the fear Egypt now has for the land of Judah in Isaiah 19. (80 million Egyptians quake in fear every time the any of the 6 million Jews in Israel rattles an Uzi.)

    It appears the "man of sin" will rule for 3.5 years, during which the AOD, mark of the beast, & great trib will all occur. Does this seem like a short time? Think back to the summer of 2014 & it seems like forever! God can cause & accomplish a lot in that time!
     
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Preterists still won't give up...

    The title of this thread has proven a bit ironic.
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still waiting for any preterist to attempt to **PROVE** preterism has a speck of TRUTH.
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    robycop I believe this is proven in 2 Peter 3 where the Day of the Lord in which the heavens and earth will be renovated by fire in verse 10 is compared to the global flood in verse 5.

    It is impossible to spiritualize Noah's flood, it was literal rain, Noah and family were in a literal ark.

    HankD
     
  13. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Ok, thank you for your answer, I may have another question for you later about it [Matthew 24], if you will.

    However, I am interested in the sectioned comment in the reply in regards Acts 12:4 KJB and the specifc word therein, "Easter" wherein you stated that you think it is a 'goof' or 'boo boo' in translation. Two questions:

    [1] Is the bible your final authority in all matters of faith and practice?

    [My own answer to this is, "Yes.", such as Psalms 12:6-7; John 10:35 KJB, etc]​

    [2] Would you briefly explain personally why you think that the word "Easter" [KJB] is in error, or incorrect in this place?​

    I would like to study this matter with you, and see if it is so.

    Generally the world speaks the up to date 'King James' English, even as many countries were/are influenced by the English empire [India, China, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, North and South America, certain areas of Africa, etc], missionaries, and the King James translation itself.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    OK. I'll answer this one time on this thread, lest we derail it from preterism.

    First, Easter is a goof in the KJV (NOT "KJB"!) because. EASTER DIDN'T EXIST when Luke wrote 'Acts', and even if it did, neither tje Jews nor Herod would've paused their activities to have observed it.

    Second, the Koine Greek word rendered 'Easter' here is "pascha", which, at that time, meant only PASSOVER.. (It's a transliteration of the Hebrew "p'sach", GOD'S word for passover.) "Pascha" is the same word Jesus is quoted as using for passover, so unless you believe Jesus observed Easter, then its meaning must remain PASSOVER in Scripture.

    And my answer to [1] is "Yes".

    (Please take any other discussion of this to the "Bible versions/translations" forum. I have created a thread titled "For One Baptism" in that forum.)
     
    #134 robycop3, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Whats a Preterists?

    Is that like one who are in a alternate reality like the Matrix, tested by the devil in the presence of God, where the actual time we are in is we are at the cross right now, and we are living out this massive temptation and in the "end times" without knowing it. ???
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe there are specific events prophesied that haven't yet occurred.
     
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  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I got enough trouble today! :Laugh

    Matthew 6

    34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 4 PM Pacific.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still, NO EVIDENCE from preterists supporting their doctrine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Not a stitch
     
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