Pro-life advocate accuses politicians of using faith for political means

Amen!

Abortion is not up for deliberation in God's word. Scripture makes it perfectly clear that at conception a child is, even though the child is yet complete in physical form.

2Sa 11:5 And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I [am] with child.

Psa 139:16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

Exd 21:22¶If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].

Exd 21:23And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Anyone carrying the name Christian should have no delima over this matter. The biblical evidence is clear, abortion we know is killing a life and therefor there is no choice but to accept God's word and align our minds with Christ.

God bless! :thumbs:

 

The pharisaical judgmentalism of some right-wing Christians is absolutely disgusting.

I am glad that I will opposing the ones that in the upcoming general election for president will be supporting John McCain.

 

Judgment is around the corner and America has the blood of the innocent on it's hands, 49 million lives for the convenient covering of sin. America is in a "league of it's own" in regards to masses slaughtered, just look at the list and know that God judges nations that does not take care of it's most innocent.

Hitler's Germany -- 6 to 9 million

Stalin's Russia/Soviet Union -- 10 to 12 million

Mao's China -- 20 to 30 million

USA -- 49 million and counting

While the first three had an evil head, US is us. We the People are in charge. I do not know about you but I fear greatly for our nation.

 

Man do I ever agree!!!

And I find it disturbing that so many on this board can claim that God is so different (changed His mind?) in the OT from the NT.

 

More disgusting than the murder and dismemberment of children for convenience?

While you gleefully support the child-murderer of your choice, will you at least say a prayer that the death agonies of these little ones are brief and their loss of life in some way compensated for by a loving God?

 

Of course not.

However, there are lots of other issues to consider.

Let me ask you this. If a candidate agreed to eliminate all abortions immediately if you and all Americans would agree to give up all of your liberties(including the freedom to worship) and install him as a dictator, would you agree to this? Why or why not?

If you say "no" then abortion may not be as important to you as you seem to make it.

 

If you'll let me modify the question slightly, I will give an answer. In your scenario, if I could be guaranteed that the abortions would end, rather than just a promise from another lying politician, the answer is yes; I'd give up my freedom and yours to prevent the murders of 1.3 children a year.

There are many reasons as to why, and I don't want to discuss them all publicly or hijack this thread, but here are some of them. One answer is that the price of these freedoms we so cherish in this country has been toleration of the greatest evil that ever entered the heart of man. Such things as wholesale slaughter of millions of children, state recognition of false religions that openly deny Christ and persecute His people, and removal of Christ and His Word from public life, and even removal of the right to acknowledge Him in many schools and government institutions. Another is that I am to give to the poor and helpless whatever I am able, whatever God has granted me to give, whatever they need, and if I have to, I will give my freedoms for their lives, even my ("my" referring to association, not ownership; I do not own myself) life for their lives.

The obligations and rights in Scripture, placed upon and given to us by God, usurp the rights of any government; I will, for example, worship whether it is legal or not, and no one can stop me. Indeed, they would be hard-pressed to even detect it if I did it silently in my heart--a form of praise every bit as meaningful to me (actually moreso to me personally) as singing and clapping in an expensive church building. Christianity prospers under persecution. Though I have no proof, I think you'll find far less toleration of abortion and other evils in societies where Christians are persecuted than in our, imo, largely spoiled Christian churches where toleration of evil is creeping up on many.

While I am not arguing that a dictatorship is as preferable a form of government as democracy, it doesn't have to be horrible; it depends on, for example whether the dictator is a Godly man. It can be very good, as with the Godly kings in history and Scripture. Or it can be very bad. Democracy, imo, has a stabilizing affect, limiting the good and some of the bad both, but guaranteeing a strong element of evil in a society, since the majority of people are not men and women of God.

I agree with you that there are lots of issues to consider, but the murder of children is of far, far more importance than whether the government raises our taxes, can listen to our phone calls, or whether illegal aliens have a path to citizenship. I believe the only issues that are in the same league as abortion are things like severe persecution of the church or establishment of an ungodly state religion, etc.

 

Which candidate meets your high standards and deserves your vote?

 

Thank you for your answer, Chessic. I understand what you are saying.

I will not vote for John McCain in November even if he says all the right things on the abortion issue. I think that Senator McCain would continue, if not expand, President Bush's foreign adventurism. I want our troops out of Iraq as rapidly as practical. I certainly don't want them there for the next 100 years. And I certainly don't want whoever the president is to start another war in the Mideast by attacking Iran when there is no evidence that Iran is attempting to construct a nuclear weapon. I do not trust McCain in this area and I will not vote for him.

 

So does GW Bush.

 

Good answer, Chessic. You articulated much of my thinking on this issue and I stand with you on this matter.

In examining myself on the matter of abortion, I have always opposed it and it is an absolute requirement for any candidate I vote for to be staunchly pro-life. However, this election season has me realizing that I have not done enough for this cause. Simply voting and no more is no longer sufficient. I must speak out to those in my circle of influence, even if it is percieved by others as a taboo subject.

We have to remember that the issue of slavery was debated for several generations in this nation. Many christians kept silent and many also took the side of the slave-holders. Many said that they were personally opposed to slavery, yet they would not impose their beliefs on others. All the while millions of slaves lived and died under that unjust system. They were not even counted as a whole person (i.e. the 3/5 compromise built into the constitution).

The situation today is the same, yet worse. The victims today are being outright murdered. And they have even less voice and are more defenseless than the slaves were. And what are we doing about it? What am I doing about it?

Abraham Lincoln pondered that the Civil War might have been God's judgement on America for its toleration and support of slavery. If that is true, what might that mean for our modern nation's future?

Someone has stated on another thread that christians have nothing to fear from God when His judgement comes. Well, I wonder how many righteous people of the 1860's suffered greatly during that time? Many were killed in the war, on both sides. I'm sure many christians in the south found themselves in the path of destruction wrought by the armies. Did they have nothing to fear? Did they suffer no loss?

I enjoy the good times of peace and prosperity in our nation as much as anyone else, but it is an abomination that 50 million children have lost their lives during this prosperous time. As much as I dread what our nation may face as a result of our sin, something deep in my soul also cries out for God's justice to be done. I can only imagine what that may bring upon us and our children.:tear:

Randy

 

I think one thing to keep in mind in these types of discussions is that politicians are not just representing themselves but also the people who elected them. It is very likely that s/he was elected by people who do not share all of his values and his job as an elected representative may require him to vote on issues in a manner contrary to his own beliefs.

 

Chessic,

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

I'm with you!

1Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.

 

Amen!

We need strong leaders to stand up and be heard. We are all responsible to declare the word of the Lord on this matter. I have family who say they are Christians yet support the right for a woman to choose to kill her child if she wants. They say the same thing as you pointed out in the days of slavery...."I don't believe it is right but let them decide if it is right for themselves"......

How about as Christians we let God decide what is right for all of His creation and obey it?

Good post drwthohh !

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Should be 1.3 million children a year.

Nice post, drw.