Profess Jesus yet follow Moses

I challenge you once again, Ed Sutton, Bob Pastor and the like, that you assault the Law of God in toto or in part ONLY to excuse yourselves from trampling underfoot the Fourth Commandment.

 

Said Ed Sutton:
"As a Christian, I am not "under" the precepts of the Mosaic Law."

Even as a Christian, man is and shall be under the Law "for as long as he lives" -- is what the NT says. Because man for as long as he lives - even whilst being saved - remains transgressor of the Law and in need of grace. As long as one needs grace is he under the law - else he needs not grace!
As a Christian, I especially am under the precepts of the whole Mosaic Law - that's why I need Jesus Christ, to stand in for me to fulfill and obey them all - in my stead and on my behalf - to present before the judgement seat of God a perfect obedience as if it were mine own --- through grace!

 

D.L Moody makes a great argument for the Ten Commandments INCLUDING the 4th -- as binding today!

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

What a great guy!! Too bad we don't have more like him these days!

In Christ,

Bob

 

If you had bothered to actually read my posts, (as opposed to perhaps hunting for 'buzz-words' and phrases) you would have noticed that I also mentioned Paul's quotes that we are "dead to the law", and "dead to the law". You have one thing right, here. "for as long as he lives". That is exactly the point. I died, and was raised, in Christ, born "anew", and beyond the reach of the Mosaic law, now set-aside, by Christ, both at and on the cross. I have already quoted or referenced Scripture for each and every idea posted here, in the series of posts. With all respect, I simply don't have time to do it again, right now. And I'd offer that most of what you have here posted simply doesn't agree with specific Scriptures. To use one small example.
I do not "need the Lord Jesus Christ to stand in for me to fulfill and obey them all - in my stead and on my behalf - to present before the judgment seat of God a perfect obedience as though it were mine own --- through grace!"
I do not agree with one single thing in that part of one of your sentences, that I quoted verbatim save for adding the two words "the Lord", except for the last two words - "through grace". The Lord Jesus Christ has already stood in for me; He has already fulfilled each and every precept in the law; He has already obeyed them all; All of this has ALREADY BEEN DONE, in my stead, and on my behalf. And He did it once, for all time, according to Hebrews. There is a 'presentation' of "a perfect obedience as though it were mine own", but that presentation is not before the 'bema', for that is where we are given our rewards, based on the things done in the body, good or bad. (Found in I Cor. 5 and also Romans.)
And for the record, I do need grace, and also grace in the stead of grace, as well.

Gotta' run for now.

Ed

 

I think Apostle Paul wrote it best and you choose His words to say it is no longer in force and it was him that

said it was. Is there no longer sin in the world? There is the Law Covenant and there is the Law of the Commandments of

which you do err trying to combine them. The Commandments were preached by Christ Himself, by Apostle Paul, by

Timothy and others, now you say that they don't need to be preached? You tell me which one can you break and not sin!

for sin is the transgression of the law(Ten Commandments), Can you worship idol Gods, steal, lie, kill, etc?


1Jo 3:4¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 Timothy, chapter 1

6: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7: Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding

neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8: But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for

sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if

there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Romans, chapter 7

"7": What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust,

except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

"8": But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was

dead.

"9": For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

"10": And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

"11": For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

"12": Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

"13": Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by

that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.


Luk 24:44 ¶ And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things

must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.


KJMatt.19
16": And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

"17": And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

"18": He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

"19": Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"20": The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

"21": Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

1 John, chapter 5
"3": For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 Chronicles, chapter 28
"8": Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever

Judges, chapter 2
"17": And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so.


Daniel, chapter 9
"4": And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

John, chapter 14
"15": If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John, chapter 14
"21": He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John, chapter 15
10": If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John, chapter 15
"10": If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

You say not to separate the Ten Commandments from the Mosaic Law, but Apostle Paul did. Jesus did, Timothy did. So will I.

 

GE:
How persistly false can you get, BobRyan! This is the umpteenth time I tell you Moody meant the Sunday with 'sabbath' -- he was a santi-sabbath Seventh Day as is the pope!

 

GE:
I think you understand me with a pre-conceived and wrong idea of what I believe, for I believe (exactly) as you do! (See thread 'As I understand the judgement was set' -- I am NOT SDA.)

Only difference I think between what you believe and what I do, is that Jesus did not annihilate the Law as a rule of conduct and faith "FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD" - HE EMBODIED IT IN HIMSELF and in everything He did and accomplished, not least of which was to rise from the dead "IN SABBATH'S FULNESS OF DAY" (opse de sbbatohn tehi epifohskousehi).

 

GE:
THERE IS NO ANIMOSITY OR ANOMALY between the Old Testament and the New Testament - between 'the law' and Christ -- never, except whe WE pit them against each other -- like you do with your doctrine of 'Spirit'-free-will/choice-works-covenant as if the Spirit opposes the Will of God as expressed of old through the Letter of the Law.

 

FTR, I have been a member of the BB for some 9 1/2 months, and in over 1600 posts have never even attempted to identify anyone as anything, aside from myself as a member of a local Baptist Church, and classify my own little lonesome as one of the redundantly misnomered "free-grace" bunch, other than what he or she believes and/or is teaching, and have not pigeonholed anyone into any group, sect, cult, branch, theological system, or abomination - 'er I mean denomination, at all. I simply do not care who one chooses to associate or identify with, be it me or anyone else, for I will and do think no more or less of one, given that information. As to your suggestion about differences, I can not comment on anything other than what I've seen you post. And I make no attempt to remember what each and every one posts. But I usually post in response to something that gets my attention, and seldom start a thread. So the latest threads are all I would usually know about. And here, in this one it does appear we have some differences, wouldn't you say? And I am not a good enough Greek student to tackle this rendering of Greek, agree or disagree, for I truly do not know, off the cuff. In the meantime, I am about to gp to sleep typing, so will have to hang it up, for now. Language Cop says he is not even going to proofread this. Good night, John-boy! Good night, Erin! Good night, Ben! Good ni...!

Ed

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
D.L Moody makes a great argument for the Ten Commandments INCLUDING the 4th -- as binding today!

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The...ents_Text.html

What a great guy!! Too bad we don't have more like him these days!

In Christ,

Bob

THis is the umpteenth time I remind you and others here that while Moody DOES consider Sunday to be a valid "edit" of the Word of God He ALSO admits to many obvious truths that those here (including you in some cases) turn a blind eye to -

He admits along with Adam Clarke and Jamieson and Fausset and Brown - that Christ the Creator's Holy Day memorial of creation started in its obligation for mankind in Genesis 2:3. He does not claim that at that time it was "Sunday". He does not deny the Mark 2 statement of Christ that when made God's memorial of HIS creative act in Gen 1-2:3 was MADE for mankind!

He admits that the 4th commandment is still binding on all mankind. Some like Ed may deny these Bible teachings as indeed you claim to - but Moody did not! What a great guy!!

The fact that Moody ALSO chooses to edit this part of God's Word - as does the RCC - is an error - but in many ways it is still wayyyy ahead of those who reject the very scriptures that he accepts!

I am willing to see the good even among points that are not ALL correct.

Hint.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Brother Bob, I haven't read much of your many posts. But today while thinking on our last conversation and when I said I agree with you (exactly), second thoughts came up.
Please tell me - I'm just an ordinary oke and ask perhaps stupid questions - do you say you're not a sinner? I know of people here in SA who say they aren't -- for the very reasons you mentioned why you reject the TC?

 

GE:
No man! None of these great guys and indeed they were used even Scriptures like the creation-Sabbath's for a Seventh Day observance by Christians -- they - to quote your word - 'edited' it to suite Sunday-observance and you know it.
But your problem is BR never makes mistakes he is infallible and those non BR-fans are just plain headstrong or stupid.

 

What is the "TC"?

What is "SA"?

I never said I was not a sinner - where did you get that idea?

In Christ,

Bob

 

THis is the umpteenth time I remind you and others here that while Moody DOES consider Sunday to be a valid "edit" of the Word of God He ALSO admits to many obvious truths that those here (including you in some cases) turn a blind eye to -

He admits along with Adam Clarke and Jamieson and Fausset and Brown - that Christ the Creator's Holy Day memorial of creation started in its obligation for mankind in Genesis 2:3. He does not claim that at that time it was "Sunday". He does not deny the Mark 2 statement of Christ that when made God's memorial of HIS creative act in Gen 1-2:3 was MADE for mankind!

He admits that the 4th commandment is still binding on all mankind. Some like Ed may deny these Bible teachings as indeed you claim to - but Moody did not! What a great guy!!

The fact that Moody ALSO chooses to edit this part of God's Word - as does the RCC - is an error - but in many ways it is still wayyyy ahead of those who reject the very scriptures that he accepts!

I am willing to see the good even among points that are not ALL correct.

 

Must be difficult to be annoyed and sleepy at the same time!
Can't understand what you say in any case. All I wanted to state - as a confession of simple, sincere, honest, Christian confession - no harm meant, no axes to grind -- is I believe what Jesus said to my soul's comfort - that I with and in Him have gone through the eternal judgement that forever determined my eternal destination - that when He conquered, I conquered He holding me fast in His hand so no one is able to take me out ever.
You learned guys on this board are tiresome - always looking out how and where you can belitlle some poor fellow. Have you ever thought this board is the only 'Church' some lonely soul could go to for discourse on Christ and His love and salvation -- that's me yes.

 

But surely there must be someone out there who finds this construction (chiasm) interesting and exiting to say the least? Where's the 'language-cop'?
Am I right its basic suppostition is the judgement of God through Jesus Christ?

 

GE:
Ten Commanments; South Africa - sorry, I'm back-velder.
But I think you're mixed up here - I asked 'Brother Bob' if he doesn't regard himself a sinner. No BobRyan, for once we don't clash. I know the best among men - Seventh Day Adventists - and they all confess ther ARE sinners. Praise God!

 

And EdSutton, I may refer you to the BEST of 'language-cops', AT Robertson. He will wake you up!

 

I never said I was not a sinner either but there is a sin and there is a "sin unto death" and the Lord said not to even pray for him. If we see our members out worshipping a cow or the sun or some idol, then we remove fellowship from them. Also, if one of our members kills someone we withdraw fellowship, etc. We don't believe in a house full of adulterys, liars, killers, idol worshippers etc as being a church. Not saying it can't happen but I am saying to cleans yourself from such a one and not fellowship such a one when it is brought to light.​

1 John, chapter 1​

5: This then is the message which we have heard of him,

and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no

darkness at all.

6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in ​

darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: ​

7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have ​

fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ ​

his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ​

8: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and ​

the truth is not in us. ​

9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive ​

us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ​

10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. ​

1 John, chapter 2​

1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye ​

sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: ​

2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. ​

4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ​

5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ​

6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. ​

7: Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. ​

8: Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. ​

9: He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. ​

10: He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. ​

1 John, chapter 5​

16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto ​

death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that ​

sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say ​

that he shall pray for it. ​

17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. ​

18: We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; ​

but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that ​

wicked one toucheth him not. ​

GE;
I say we sin outwardly or in the flesh but inwardly we ​

dwelleth the Holy Spirit and it cannot sin.​

I believe even outwardly we sin that sin which is not unto ​

death but I do not believe we "sin unto death".​

Hbr 6:4​

For [it is] impossible for those who were once

enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift,​

and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto ​

repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of ​

God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.​