Prophecy on Rick Warren

If you define fundamentalist as adhering to the 5 fundamentals of the faith ...

1) inerrancy of Scripture
2) virgin birth and deity of Christ
3) substitutionary atonement
4) bodily ressurection of Christ
5) authenticity of Christ's miracles

... then Saddleback is a fundamentalist church.

The virgin birth and authenticiy of Christ's miracles were not explicitly stated in their statement of faith but I wouldn't be surprised if they believed this.

So I guess Rick Warren is also a fundamentalist in addition to being a heretic, liberal and whatever label folks wish to apply to him. I'm sure he has heard it all before and doesn't let it bother him anymore.

 

The historic meaning of a Christian Liberal is one that denies the fundamentals as posted above.

Warren believes in all the above, so therefore, he cannot be called a liberal..

Socialist, maybe, but not Liberal..
Many a fundamentalist have called out "liberal" so much that they no longer no what a true liberal is.

Remember the boy that cried Wolf.

Not everyone that wants to help the poor, work for Peace, or try to control AIDS are Liberal.

It takes more than that to be a Liberal, you must deny the fundamentals.

 

James who happened to be Jesus' half brother also believed in the fundamentals of the faith and taught that not to feed or clothe someone in need was much like having the same faith as the demons who also believe and shudder.

James 2:18-20, "But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

 

So I guess RW is a liberal fundamental heretical false prophet! This should make everyone happy

 

Don't forget that he wears a goatee... or did he shave already?

 

How soon we forget things.

You may need to look back into your seminary notes for this one. The above statement is speaking the "message" is true...and without error. All believe this, even non-fundamentalist. This wording is used by the some in order not to address the inerrancy of Scripture. This was seen in the SBC statements going back to the 1925s??? Not sure the date.

SBC..

This was worded when liberals were in full control of the SBC. I'm not SBC but, I understand this is being looked at to be changed. I hope to a stronger statement.


Inerrancy really speaks of each word of the text. One will need to place the Inerrancy in a version or the original manuscripts.

Below you will find a statement of faith that covers this is full...

Another one..

Piper...

MacArthur....

Another...

more....

Northland Baptist Bible College .....

You will alos find statements of faith addressing versions..like KJVonly. I'll not post these.

This is not a statement about an inerrant text, but rather the message..

 

Would you say then, that Mr. Warren is an enemy of the 21st century?

"Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be 'one of the big enemies of the 21st century.'"

"Muslim fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, secular fundamentalism - they're all motivated by fear. Fear of each other." - Rick Warren (Source: Philadelphia Inquirer)​

 

Touche.

I do agree with Warren's statements about fundamentalism. It just goes to show how easily that label can morph just like the liberal label.

 

Hey. Wait a minute. I wear a goatee too. Does this make me a "liberal fundamental heretical false prophet"?

Listen guys (and gals), I'd hate to answer to God for calling someone who reaches so many for Christ some of the things I've been reading on the BB. He doesn't deny the 5 fundamentals listed here. He might "do" church differently than I do, but he's still reaching the lost for Christ.

If you disagree with him so strongly, you might try praying for him instead of trying to tear him down. )And, you might want to cut him some slack.)

 

I couldn't agree more. I used to be very skeptical of Saddleback and Willowcreek, then I got some first hand information from both and realized that I had never seen a church working harder to reach the lost than these two.

I don't agree with everything either does, but I have never found their critics to be working to reach the lost.

 

Apparently these quotes caused quite a stir when they were made. Here is saddleback's "clarification".

 

My apologies...I meant to say that I have never found their critics to be working AS HARD to reach the lost.

 

A couple starter questions on this "clarification". Who is "staff" and why would "staff" be in charge of clarifying a statement that Mr. Warren made? In the "clarification" the following expressions are stated...

"I thought you'd also appreciate..."
"I'm not speaking here about the Ten Commandments..."
"I'm sure that's what the Greek says..."
"We come proclaiming that..."​

Is staff I or is staff we? Who is I or who is we? Is "staff" one person as in "I" and if so who is the staff member and why be anonymous? Or did the whole staff get together as in "we" and is Rick Warren part of staff since he's on the staff of Saddleback Valley church or is it Rick Warren's staff minus Rick Warren but then if it is multiple players why the use of "I"?

Does Rick Warren vouch for the authenticity of this anonymous document on Pastors.com? Does he stand by the words of this clarification as he would his own words?

 

Pastors.com is Rick Warren's website of resources for church leaders. My guess would be that "staff" represents all the staff at Saddleback of which Warren is the senior pastor.

 

The Pastors.com site has a "We Believe" statement that does include the virgin birth and Christ's miracles.

 

Check this out from a guy named Paul Proctor:
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor90.htm

It would sound like sometimes Warren is a fundamentalist and sometimes he's an evangelical...just depends on the audience he's preaching to.

 

The website NewWithViews doesn't look like anything close to what I would call respectable and responsible journalism. But I guess if you want to find "sources" that support your views, there are definitely all sorts of interesting folks on the innerweb that will write something that agrees with any view you want to espouse.

Regarding the labels fundamentalist and evangelical, I don't believe they are necessarily mutually exclusive terms. I find that I can identify with the labels liberal, evangelical and fundamentalist to some extent, even though most folks consider them to be mutually exclusive terms.

 

Who is Rick Warren?

 

He's the tall guy that works in paint supplies down at Kmart. :smilewinkgrin:

 

This reminds me of a call I got at work yesterday. A lady wanted the associate who "looks like her bank teller at Charter One bank" (she didn't know her name). I told her "please hold, I'll get her for you"... :laugh: How she could think I would have any idea who her teller is...