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Prophecy

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    That is exactly what I am thinking.

    Wouldn't someone who understands prophecy, studies it, listens to great prophecy teachers be more apt to witness.


    I am sorry about the suicide getting thrown out there, I hijacked my own thread.

    I have an HPO for you (Hot Prophecy Opinion), the Anti-Christ is alive and well today and we will know him for who he is before we are caught up. Another thing, the church will be persecuted on Earth, count on it. True Bible believing churches will have more room in the pews and the parking lot, because those that are luke warm aren't going to hang in there when the persecution begins.

    True Christians are already labeled and pushed to the side, called Fundamentalists (I kind of like that), Zionists, Politically Incorrect, Intolerant, Narrow Minded, and a countless amount of other things. Our religion isn't allowed in school, and that goes for Our God. Religion is allowed, just not ours. Sharing your faith in Christ with others is looked down upon, but feel free to tell me about worshipping the soil and fertilizer outside, that sounds interesting.
     
  2. John R

    John R New Member

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    MY Father Knows

    God the Father is the only one who knows when to end of this age will end. We have been told to be ready because it could come at any second. Prophecy is very important because if Jesus isn't coming back for us or isn't preparing a place for us, why go on. But for now we need to follow what we have been told to do. Take the Good news of Jesus to the world! Yes I belleve this world has a hard time coming but I'm told to not let my heart be troubled. Could go on and on but I'll quit here.
     
    #42 John R, Jun 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2007
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Agree with you SGW. And good post, John R. :thumbs:
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Horrible thing, come to a discussion board and have your views challenged. Who woulda thunk it.



    Tell us LE what is the “official SBC position” on eschatology.

    Secondly, those who are preterist, like myself, do not believe in Replacement theology as has been explained to you numerous times. I don’t, nor many others, believe the Church replaced Israel but believe the Church is the fulfillment of the promises made to Old Covenant Israel. Thus Old Covenant Israel is transformed into New Covenant Israel by the fulfilled promises made to her. Reject it, fine. But please stop miss-representing our views. Replacement theology is found more in futuristic eschatology’s that believe God will someday replace the Church with the nation of Israel.



    As a preterist I agree. I also get excited about prophecy being fulfilled.



    Ever go to the eschatology section of Lifeway?



    My guess is you were basing your foreign policy views on your eschatological views.



    Those “evil” Baptist like John Gill who said this regarding Matthew 26:64:

    and coming in, the clouds of heaven. So Christ's coming to take vengeance on the Jewish nation, as it is often called the coming of the son of man, is described in this manner, Mat_24:27.

    Or Spurgeon who believed the Tribulation was a past event:

    "Truly, the blood of the martyrs slain in Jerusalem was amply avenged when the whole city became a veritable Aceldama, or field of blood... It was before that generation had passed away that Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed. There was a sufficient interval for the full proclamation of the gospel by the apostles and evangelists of the early Christian Church, and for the gathering out of those who recognized the crucified Christ as their true Messiah. Then came the awful end, which the Saviour foresaw and foretold, and the prospect of which wrung from his lips and heart the sorrowful lament that followed his prophecy of the doom awaiting his guilty capital... Nothing remained for the King but to pronounce the solemn sentence of death upon those who would not come unto him that they might have life: "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." The whole "house" of the Jews was left desolate when Jesus departed from them; and the temple, the holy and beautiful "house", became a spiritual desolation when Christ finally left is. Jerusalem was too far gone to be rescued from its self-sought doom." (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412,413)

    "The King left his followers in no doubt as to when these things should happen: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." It was just about the ordinary limit of a generation when the Roman armies compassed Jerusalem, whose measure of iniquity was then full, and overflowed in misery, agony, distress, and bloodshed such as the world never saw before or since. Jesus was a true Prophet; everything that he foretold was literally fulfilled." (The Gospel of the Kingdom, p.218)
    "This portion of our Saviour's words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ's disciples saw "the abomination of desolation," that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatries, "stand in the holy place," they knew that the time for their escape had arrived; and they did flee to the mountains." (Matthew: The Gospel of the Kingdom. . p. 215.)

    Give me Gill and Spurgeon over Larkin and Scofield any day of the year.



    Where did Jesus predict this?
     
  5. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Perhaps you could show us what those promises were and how they have been fulfilled.
     
  6. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Yes, please do. I read the LONG post before I saw who the member author was, but from the vitriol, could have guessed it was the GH. Again.
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


    Did you know Charles Ryrie doesn’t believe the New Covenant of Jer. 31:31 has been made yet?


    Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Jer 31:33 but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
    Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Laws into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    Heb 8:11 And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.


    Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
    Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

    1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
    1Pe 2:10you who then were not a people, but now the people of God, those not pitied then, but now pitied.


    Hos 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

    2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy. For I have espoused you to one Man, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.


    Amo 9:11 In that day I will raise up the booth of David that has fallen, and close up its breaks; and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;

    Act 15:15 And the words of the Prophets agree to this; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 "After this I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David which has fallen down; and I will build again its ruins, and I will set it up,
    Act 15:17 so those men who are left might seek after the Lord, and all the nations on whom My name has been called, says the Lord, who does all these things."

    Eze 37:19 Say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions, and I will put them with him, with the stick of Judah, and will make them one stick, and they shall be one in My hand.

    Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.
    Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us,

    Eze 37:26 And I will cut a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.
    Eze 37:27 And My tabernacle shall be with them. Yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    Eze 37:28 And the nations shall know that I Jehovah sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in their midst forever.

    2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of Godhave with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
    2Co 6:17 Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
    2Co 6:18 and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
     
  8. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    [personal attack deleted]

    this board is too full of scoffers and naysayers.

    people in IFB churches (from what I have observed) get more meat and substance in Bible Study than what is published through Lifeway, which is more or less pablum

    there are Baptist pastors who believe in the evil lie of replacement theology

    I never cease to be amazed what people on here believe when it comes to Biblical doctrine.

    One thing I have learned about you LE is if I want to get rid of you all I have to do is start asking you to defend your statements and beliefs with scripture. It is then you seem to become disintrested in the thread. Lets try to actually answer the questions posed to you:

    1. Tell us LE what is the “official SBC position” on eschatology.

    2. Ever go to the eschatology section of Lifeway?

    3. Where did Jesus predict this?

    Now a new one that is vitally important, has the New Covenant of Jer. 31:31 been made?
     
    #48 Grasshopper, Jun 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2007
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Semantics is all it boils down to, no matter what. Preterism just sounds better than RT. Your definitiion of RT is incorrect, BTW. And I am not a hypocrite - that is a personal attack and against the rules.
     
  10. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    1. Tell us LE what is the “official SBC position” on eschatology.

    2. Ever go to the eschatology section of Lifeway?

    3. Where did Jesus predict this?

    Now a new one that is vitally important, has the New Covenant of Jer. 31:31 been made?
     
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Well you are wrong about that. All you need to do to get rid of me on a thread is just for you to show up. Bye. See you over at Rapture Ready. :laugh:

    But anyway, just by your showing up, you have answered (better than I could) the answer to the OP - the reason we don't have many end-times prophecy discussions on this Board. I have no fellowship with anti-Semitics.
     
    #51 LadyEagle, Jun 8, 2007
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  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    I knew it, start asking LE questions and she leaves. I'm am truly a Prophet:

    "One thing I have learned about you LE is if I want to get rid of you all I have to do is start asking you to defend your statements and beliefs with scripture. It is then you seem to become disintrested in the thread."



    It's easy to have a cut and paste theology isn't it LE? It's quite another to have to defend it using scripture.

    And you are a Moderator on this Board? Intentionally breaking Board rules. Shameful, but not suprising at all.

     
  13. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Preterism ... Part Of The Church's Final Apostacy

    http://www.aquatechnology.net/preterism.html
     
  14. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    I thought you were leaving.

    Everyone notice LE still hasn't answered any of the questions asked of her? Do you wonder why? It is because she can't. Her theology comes from web-sites not the Bible. Notice her latest attempt:

    http://www.aquatechnology.net/preterism.html

    She cuts and pastes from a site that sells water distillers.:laugh: :laugh:

    From the water site:

    WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THE PRETERIST VIEW?

    Much of what motivates preterists boils down to what Christ meant in his Olivet Discourse in Matthew

    "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" Matt. 24:34
    The preterist claims that Christ was referring to those living at that time(or that generation standing with him)and they thus claim that all end times activities which were described in the earlier verses of Matthew 24 occurred and concluded at the destruction of Jerusalem. Having made that assumption, they proceed to destroy the literal translations of any contradictory textual reference in both the New and Old Testaments which is remotely related to the description of future fulfillment of prophetic events beyond AD 70.

    LE thinks CH Spurgeon is a false teacher or heretic or both:



    "The King left his followers in no doubt as to when these things should happen: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." It was just about the ordinary limit of a generation when the Roman armies compassed Jerusalem, whose measure of iniquity was then full, and overflowed in misery, agony, distress, and bloodshed such as the world never saw before or since. Jesus was a true Prophet; everything that he foretold was literally fulfilled." (The Gospel of the Kingdom, p.218)

    The question remains, has this been fulfilled:

    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah,
     
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Don't put words in my mouth, GH. BTW, how's life in the New Heaven and New Earth? If this is the New Heaven and New Earth, you can have it - isn't that what preterists believe, that we are now living in the New Heaven and New Earth since all Bible Prophecy has been fulfilled? I believe I'll have a glass of distilled water while I type this answer to those profound theological questions you asked me. :laugh:

    From GH:
    Well, the SBC official position on eschatology is NOT, like I stated previously, Replacement Theology, and it certainly isn't preterism: Here is the "official SBC position" on eschatology.
    From the BFM: http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#x
    From GH:
    Yes. And? That has nothing to do with my criticism of Lifeway material for Bible Study Class. If you bothered to attend a SBC Bible Study Class, you would know it is what used to be known as Sunday School. The Lifeway Bible Study (Sunday School) material is pablum, like I stated.

    From GH:
    In addition, II Peter 3:3,4] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    Face it, GH, you love arguing (debating) over eschatology, don't you? And especially with me, that's why you goad me so much. Protest all you want to, but you keep checking back in to goad me and see if I respond.

    Well, since I don't have my glorified body yet in this New Kingdom age, yawn, I think I'll retire and get some sleep now. After I have another glass of distilled water.
     
    #55 LadyEagle, Jun 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2007
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Then speak for yourself without the cut and paste.



    Very good.



    Shall I quote the heretic CH Spurgeon again:

    "Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under a new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).

    Might want to go back and read about the New Heavens and New Earth in Isaiah before commenting further.



    Very generic and from the 2000 BF&M. Read some Baptist writings pre-Darby.



    How little you really know of me. Secondly, not sure why their eschatology section would be any better than their SS material.


    Very nice, but now answer the question. Here is what you said:

    “It's considered allegorical, prophecy is, and not literal.
    Sad. But Jesus even prophesied this would happen, too.”

    Where did Jesus state this?



    The last days that the writer of Hebrews says were occurring in the day of Jesus:

    Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

    So it must be the scoffers at the time of the NT. What continued the same? Well, the unbelieving Jews still went to the Temple and did all the rituals of the Old Covenant. To them Jesus had changed nothing and all things continued as they always had. Interestingly, AD70 changed all that didn’t it. Suddenly things weren’t as they had always been.



    Eschatology is more important than what the average Christian thinks. It permeates the Old and New Testaments and affects all the other doctrines. Soteriology, Ecclesiology, etc..are all effected by ones view of eschatology.



    Well, I'm not the one who said I was leaving:wavey: and then kept coming back.

    I just like it when someone will defend their view with scripture instead of cut and pasting from a web-site. Wouldn’t it have been easier to just answer the questions the first time than the character assassination approach? Have you ever noticed you use very little scripture if and when you ever answer questions or defend your view? You know, questions like if Jer. 31:31 has been fulfilled yet. Seems it would be an easy question to answer, but for some reason you won’t touch it.
     
  17. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    grasshopper,

    You should be aware that, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, himself was posttrib, and his teaching of millennial sounds like as amill. He was not a full preterist.

    A full-preterist believes everything of prophecies in the Bible are all already fulfilled in 70 A.D.

    I disagree with them.

    THere is none record of history telling us that, a single person on earth did see Jesus appears in the sky as second advent since Christ left earth in around 33 A.D.

    The Bible teaching us, everyone shall see Christ coming in the clouds with glory and power - physical and literal according Matt. 24:30 & Rev. 1:7, even, more verses etc.

    I do believe Jeremiah 31:31 already fulfilled at Calvary, that Christ already made a new covenant with Israel & Judah by through his own blood. My belief of Jere. 31:31 doesn't make me either partial or full preterist. I understand what Jeremiah chapter 31 is talking about.

    Also, myself as amill. I do not believe in Replacement Theology. There is much misunderstanding each other about this. I do not hate Jews. So far, I am aware that none of amill attack toward Jews. They do respect them well. I do have Jew friends. I love them.

    Church doesn't replace Israel. Israel is expanding, because Gentiles are already grafted in Olive Tree join with believing Jews, so, therefore, 'All Israel' shall be saved is now happening, and when it will be completed shall be follow at the coming of Christ at the end of the age.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  18. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    I am aware of that. But LE decided to throw insults at anyone who sees Matthew 24 as being fulfilled. She seems to think her narrow view is the only view “real Baptist” should hold to. What I attempted to do was show that Baptists throughout their history(especially pre-Darby) had many preteristic interpretations of Matt 24 and Revelation.





    Perhaps that is why preterist don’t teach it. See my quote of Gill on Matt 26:64.



    Gill:

    Mat 24:30 -
    Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.

    Adam Clarke:

    Rev 1:7 -
    Behold, he cometh with clouds - This relates to his coming to execute judgment on the enemies of his religion; perhaps to his coming to destroy Jerusalem, as he was to be particularly manifested to them that pierced him, which must mean the incredulous and rebellious Jews.
    And all kindreds of the earth - Πασαι αἱ φυλαι της γης· All the tribes of the land. By this the Jewish people are most evidently intended, and therefore the whole verse may be understood as predicting the destruction of the Jews; and is a presumptive proof that the Apocalypse was written before the final overthrow of the Jewish state.
    Even so, Amen - Ναι, αμην· Yea, Amen. It is true, so be it. Our Lord will come and execute judgment on the Jews and Gentiles. This the Jews and Romans particularly felt.




    Very good, but don’t you find it interesting that men like Charles Ryrie don’t? So you believe the House of Judah and the House of Isreal were brought back together?



    Don’t you know, anyone who disagrees with the John Hagee view is an anti-semite. Perhaps we should all get an Israeli flag as our avatar to prove we don’t hate Jews. I just finished reading an amill book, “The Time is at Hand” by Jay Adams. Very good book.
     
  19. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Ezekiel 37 and 38 have not yet been fulfilled.
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Might want to inform Paul, he quotes from it:
    Co 6:15 And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
    2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


     
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