Prozac

Yes it does. But you are making the faulty assumption that being anxious and depressed are the same thing, that anxiousness and depression are interchangeable. They are not.

Again, being anxious and being depressed are two different maladies. Being anxious originates from fearfulness, a spiritual condition, sin. Having biological depression does not originate from the emotions or will of the individual and is therefore not sin. It is the result of the curse, as are all physical maladies, but does not originate, nor is it centered in the will.

 

I am saddend by the fact that so many in the church are so quick to "shoot the wounded" within the church when it comes to the issue of mental disorders. I will be the first to agree that the world is too quick to diagnose people with depression, etc., but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who DO suffer from these disorders. I have been studying and working with those with mental disorders for over five years now. You can't tell me that someone who is bi-polar is that way by choice. Many great pastors across America suffer from clinical depression, don't be so "holier than thou", that you ignorantly label these people as suffering because of their choice to "live in sin".

 

I feel as if some of you are confusing the mind with the soul.

Your soul experiences joy, peace, and love.

Your mind is going to die with your body.

Your soul goes to heaven.

A person does have a choice to accept Jesus as Savior which will give the soul eternal life and joy, peace, and love.

The soul of a Christian who is depressed never loses its joy, peace, love, or salvation.


The mind and body are connected. Each influences the other.

And with your logic, I could probably come up with scripture that would say that a person chooses cancer, heart disease, or diabetes which, of course, is not true.

 

Amen, Sister Lorelei. I totally agree with that statement. I had trouble with worry for many years until I learned to lay all my troubles at the foot of the cross and let our Lord God take care of me. You are correct. It is a wonderful peace to experience.

BUT, I have never had depression and I praise God for that! If I did have depression, I would go to a doctor and take the medicine he prescribes for it.

 

My thoughts concerning Prozac are addressed in my thoughts concerning depression. The bad thing about it is that is prescribed to treat spiritual problems, not physical ones.

~Lorelei

 

Like Depression, this is treated as a clinical disease, when the Bible says it is not.

I used this verse to prove that anxiety is not a disease. I used the verse about the fruit of the Spirit being joy and peace as proof that depression is not a disease.

Both of these disorders are claimed to be medical disorders. The Bible says they are not.

I applied it to the appropriate disorder. Do you or do you not think "anxiety" is a disease?

You still have quoted no scripture that says it is ok to have "clinical anxiety" and not experience "joy and peace" if you suffer from "clinical Depression."

~Lorelei

 

I highly recommend browsing the Christian Depression Pages found online at http://www.gospelcom.net/cdp/

Depression has afflicted man for hundreds of years. King David had some very depressing times in his life. He wrote in Psalm 31:9,10:

"Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am in trouble; My eye wastes away with grief, Yes, my soul and my body! For my life is spent with grief, And my years with sighing; My strength fails because of my iniquity, And my bones waste away."

 

No, I was addressing what is referred to as clinical anxiety. Do you believe that anxiety as well as depression is a medical rather than spiritual disorder?

Depression is feeling "sad or despondant." The fruit of the Spirit is not extreme sadness or "hopelessness." The fruit of the Spirit is the opposite of the definition for "depression." Depression is often equated with anxiety. Webmd says that it is often caused by other "mental illnesses" such as anxiety disorder. The medical community often speaks about depression and anxiety disorders together, so I have chosen to do the same. Most anti-deppresant drug commmercials claim that their medication can help depression and anxiety. I am simply showing that the Bible teaches that both are behavioral disorders that the Spirit can correct. Do you have any Scripture that proves that anything other than God and His Spirit helped anyone in the Bible overcome depression or anxiety? Are there any Scriptures that excuse such behavior?

~Lorelei

 

Yes, and what was His solution to the problem? Did he seek a therapist or the counsel of God?

~Lorelei

 

LL: You have quoted no scripture that says it is NOT all right.

The Bible DOES tell us to be anxious for nothing, but nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot achieve this with the help of medication and/or counseling.

You are adding to God's Word...

 

Some have a false belief that committed Christians will never get depression. Or if you have depression, you should just pray more, have more faith, trust God more-only sinners or weak Christians get depressed. I guess these people forget about men of God like Job, King David, Jeremiah, and many more Bible characters who experienced depression at times in their life.

Other Christians believe depression is caused by demonic oppression or possession. We do not deny that their at times may be demonic influences in regards to depression. However, too many Christians give the devil too much power. No where is scripture does it state that Job, King David, or Jeremiah were oppressed or possessed. There is not a demon behind every corner.

Another false concept is that depression or mental illnesses are only symptoms of spiritual problems. This also is a lie from the enemy of our souls. Yes, mental illness and depression can be a spiritual issue, but most of the time it is caused by chemical/hormonal imbalances in the body. Counseling alone is not always effective in helping a person come to emotional health. There are times for medication which helps bring the chemical/hormonal levels to the proper level. Christians will take medication for diabetes, heart disease, headaches, migraines, arthritis, ulcers, etc. but if you suggest medication for depression, they suddenly think you do not have enough faith. What is silly is that many of the physical sicknesses mentioned can be caused by bitterness, unforgiveness, perfectionism, malice-which are spiritual, mental, and emotional issues. But guess what? If you have migraines, I would suggest you take medication until you work out the root cause of getting migraines. And the same for depression or mental illness-take medication until you work out the root causes. I speak from experience. I was on Prozac for a year to work through my depression. For literally years before then I struggled as a Christian with depression. Maybe I should have had more faith-but the reality I didn't, and medication got me back to health.

One final point about depression and medication. Don't think that taking medication will remove all your problems, remove emotional pain, make life "wonderful", bring total peace, give you false hope. The proper administration of medication will not do any of these things. What it does do is help bring balance and a proper perspective to life. You will still experience the 'bumps in life'. It just removes The Edge.

SOURCE

 

No one here is condoning such absurd behavior or suggesting that anyone be burned at the stake. The Bible never commanded such a thing and to do so was sinful.

Yes, ingesting toxic chemicals will do terrible things to your body. There are chemicals that can effect our behavior. Alcohol is one of them, and we can see from the Scripture's admonition to refrain from becoming intoxicated, that is an undesired effect. Of course Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft and other drugs also effect your behavior. Would God really condone one drug over another?

source

Does the person with Tourette syndrome have a "choice?"</font>[/QUOTE]

I take it you are assuming that Tourette Syndrome is a provable physical disorder. I actually thought the same thing until I did a bit of research. It appears that the medical community has lied to us again.

A step forward, but still they have nothing to prove thier theory! They have not proven that TS is a physical disorder. There is NO "physical" way of testing to see if a person has TS.

In fact, TS is still treated as a "mental" disorder. You will find it listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV. If it is a "physical" disorder beyond our control, why is it being treated as a "Mental" one?

Who "discovered" Tourette Syndrome anyway?

Someone accused me of thinking that I am "smarter" than the researchers. Well, I am not suggesting that I am "smarter" than anyone. The facts have been presented.

The Bible tells us not to sin and TS is supposed to cause a person to curse uncontrollably.


Georges Gilles de la Tourette, a man who spent his life studying "hypnotism" says that it is, and everyone chooses to believe him. Among all of the writings and research that has been done since He discovered TS there is still NO evidence to prove anything they say.

I choose to continue to believe that God would not allow a person who was controlled by the Spirit of God to break the commandments of that Spirit. I do not believe that any ailment has more power than God's Spirit. When the Bible says that the fruit of the Spirit is joy and peace, then that is what I expect a person who is "walking" in the Spirit to have. Otherwise, the Holy Spirit is not as powerful as our bodies.

One last thought:

Does anyone know what neuroscientists study?

People, psychology and science believe that behavior is caused by the neurons in our brains! If this is true the entire Bible is a lie! Wake up, this is not Scriptural! If you believe the Bible you should oppose anything that tries to discredit it. The Bible says we are responsible for our behavior! Is this true, or is God sending people to hell for making them with nuerons that make them engange in sinful behavior? In other words, they can't help it! My God did no such thing! We have been warned about such things in the Bible.

~Lorelei

 

NetPublicist:

Excellent post! Thank you!

Priscilla Ann

 

No, I am simply believing it.

If I do these things then the God of peace will be with me and guard my heart and mind. Is this true or not?

This is the way to experience the peace of God. The bible does not tell me that medication is the way, that counseling is the way, or any other method known to man. The Bible says THIS is the way to experience peace.

Believe it, or beleive man, but quit pretending you can beleive both.

~Lorelei

 

Netpublicist,

You have no Scipture to back up what you said. When men of God experienced depression they went to God for help.

When man takes medication for a disease he has usually been tested for that disease. Someone mentioned Down Syndrome, a genetic disorder that my daughter has. Before my daughter was diagnosed, they "tested" her for this disease. They found that she had 3 of the #21 chromosome instead of two like most everyone else.

No one tests anyone for depression and in fact no amount of medication ever "permanantly" fixes the amount of "chemicals" in our brain. You will notice that the meds are constantly adjusted and changed because the "chemicals" are constanstly adjusting and changing. If there is no "normal" known "number of "chemicals" that will cause "normal" behavior, then how do we know that the "chemicals" that are out of wack are the cause rather than merely a symptom?

The fact is they don't know that. My mother has been on anti-depressants for 15 years. She has been on several different kinds and had several different doses of each. She still suffers from depression.

Yes, people were depressed in the Bible. But...when they were, did they stay that way and say "they couldn't help it?" No! They turned to God for help and guess what? They weren't depressed any longer! They didn't need medicine or therapy, all they needed was God, who supplies ALL of our needs!

~Lorelei

 

Lorelei,

Your degree of misunderstanding defies description!

You have done research and discovered that there are no accurate diagnostic testes for Tourette's syndrome? Do you think that every disorder must have a "test" to prove it? Do you think a "test" proves anything 100%?

You don't agree that behavior is "caused by neurons in our brains"? Do you think that the brain operates by magic or something? There is a physical basis for everything - science simply tries to find it out!

"When men of God experienced depression they went to God for help."

This is what all of us have been saying from the beginning! What Christian wouldn't say this? There still is no scripture to say that taking a dose of antidepressant is sinful as long as the believer first puts things in God's hands.

 

Lorelei,

I appreciate your positions and your dependence on Scripture, but you are wasting your time. It's interesting that on the Baptist Board (Baptists being those who claim to have the Bible as their only rule of faith and practice) those who depend on the Bible as their only rule of faith and practice are shouted down and called all kinds of names by those who humanistically argue from experience or the findings of the "experts." No one will respond to your Scriptural points because they cannot. Their authority is psychology (anti-God by definition) and experience.

 

Pastor Greg

You got it partly right. The Bible is the only rule of faith and practice. It is not a book on biology. The brain and how it functions is biologoy.

 

PastorGreg:

2 Pet 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

You say that the bible should be our only rule book. That's all well and good - it should be our rule book. But the verses of the bible were meant to address certain things. As I've explained umpteen times before - Paul clearly is not even addressing depression or any mental illness in Phil 4:6-8. He is basically saying to trust God in all things - and no rightminded pastor or Christian doctor would advocate anything else.

The problem is that you and others have decided to put words in Paul's (and God's) mouth and hijack this verse, making it say something it didn't intend to say. You are privately interpreting the verse - and that is false doctrine.

Then you accuse anyone who uses his or her mind (a tool which God gave us) of bowing to humanism. This is like an ostrich putting its head in the sand!! God does not expect Christians to be stupid!!

I think you and some of these others have a preconceived notion of how things should be and you twist scripture any which way to make it appear so.

***Edited to strike personal attacks***

Blackbird--Moderator

[ May 11, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]