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Psalms 12:6-7

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by robycop3, Feb 2, 2005.

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  1. Hotwheels

    Hotwheels New Member

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    For the most part of church history the word of god was not avalible. but I will give you a breif history lesson from my very limited knowledge of bible. true enough the word of god was avalible in the greek and hebrew but the average person in the church didn't from my limited understanding have access to the word of god as we know it today (kjv). the first bible given out from my understanding was the wyncliffe bible but some scholars (tyndale) fond these copys to be inacurate for reasons that I don't remember and tyndale had to flee for his life to germany or switzerland or someplace like that (I apoligize for my poor mem.)because as I remember he was writing a bible that was contrary to the doctrin at that time(whether the cathlic church or the church of england I don't rem.)and what I would love for every one to remember is that the first bibles where hand written and prone to type errors (the inconsistancy of the humand).
    After this tyndale also helped rewrite the bible with coverdale 10 years later after this 2 years later tynedale coauthered the mathews bible 2 years after this tyndale helped coauther the great bible but died before it was complete also keep in mind all this was done in secreat because these people where hiding from the hierarchy church. then the geneva bible came out 21 years later and 8 years later the bishops bible was produced and I believe that is the bible that came over on the Mayflower (could be the other way around). then in 1610 thdouay bible came out but i really don't think that it took to well and finaly in 1611 the king james.
    now for Dr.B yes there where type'os in the king james but they where all (at first) hand written and when you take into consideration the other 14 books that are not in the current king james(and I did have a copy of the apocrypha's,you can get them on line) it would reason that you could or would find mistakes and also you have to take into consideration that the type setters of that time did all their type setting laborously by hand(not the spoiled gen. we are now with computers and such).

    Now when you take all this into consideration I think that it would be very fair to say that for a large part of our christian history we where without the word of god (the general public that is) except for what they where told by the church authority at the time.


    This is not as clear or as accuate as I would like for it to be but it is the best I cane do on the fly.

    Peace and grace from our lord jesus christ
    [​IMG]
     
    #21 Hotwheels, Feb 2, 2005
  2. natters

    natters New Member

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    Hotwheels, were Bibles like the Geneva "the word of God"? Was Psalm 12:6-7 true in them?
     
    #22 natters, Feb 2, 2005
  3. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Correct! Amen!
     
    #23 Askjo, Feb 2, 2005
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Amity:The Hebrew word "shamar" meaning "to keep" which the New International Version translators render "you will keep us" is found in the future second person singular "thou shalt keep" and is directed to the THIRD person plural "them" and NOT the first person plural "us" as the New International Version translators rendered it. Thus we see it is the King James which has accurately preserved the reading of the originals, not the unreliable New International Version.

    Evidently, the AV translators didn't see it that way, nor did the Geneva Bible translators, who weren't exactly slouches themselves. It appears they tied in 'shamar' with the following word 'natsar'(separated by 'Yahweh'). The AV men let us know from their marginal note how they could possibly have rendered that verse, while the GB men simply called it "him". Sorry, but what you've written is no defense.
     
    #24 robycop3, Feb 2, 2005
  5. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    #25 Askjo, Feb 2, 2005
  6. natters

    natters New Member

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    Ah, interesting. Which ones? Why does the KJV match none of them perfectly?
     
    #26 natters, Feb 2, 2005
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Hotwheels: I 'm sorry! but i have a very narrow view of any other tran. other then a auth.K.J.V. mainly because the first thing that SATAN tries to do is wipe out the holy trinity of 2John. 5:7.

    Sorry, but that's not a very good reason. Please do a little legwork about that concept to see how meaningless it is. Meanwhile, do you have any thouthts about Ps.12:6-7?
     
    #27 robycop3, Feb 2, 2005
  8. Hotwheels

    Hotwheels New Member

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    If mem. serves me correctly the tyndale bible was 90% accurate from the one that I use today, the geneva bible being two below obviously there where some discrepancies (forgive my poor spelling i'm an engineer not a english maj.) :confused:
     
    #28 Hotwheels, Feb 2, 2005
  9. natters

    natters New Member

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    So they weren't the word of God?

    Even KJV-only authors put these Bibles (Tyndale, Geneva, etc.) on their "tree of Good Bibles", and 90% is more different from the KJV than most "modern versions".

    I am also an engineer and not an English major. [​IMG] Being an engineer is not an excuse for poor spelling and grammar skills. [​IMG]
     
    #29 natters, Feb 2, 2005
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Hotwheels: Your right it is 1john that was a type'o on my part. next I Don't Know I've never read any other Bible as far as what the Baptist call the holy bible.

    Then how can you make your following statement if you've never read'em?

    most of the new translations for the modern age church christ is down played, his lordship and being complete creator of everything that is is downplayed and so on.

    Seems as if you've been reading the garbage put forth by Riplinger, Ruckman, Moorman, Gipp, Grady, Reagan, etc. i strongly recommend you check out the VERACITY of their assertions before accepting them as doctrinal.


    if your nkjv has kept that that is good for you!
    I see no need to change bibles (as most people do)because they didn't understand it when they read it.

    Why not? King James had a Bible in his own contemporary language, but he still authorized a new one. Did HE have authority to do that, except as a human king?


    some should probebly check into their own salvation because the word of god says that you are taught by the holy spirit.

    First, a kind reminder...Questioning another member's salvation here is strictly against the rules. Second...The Holy Spirit expects you to make an effort yourself to study the Scriptures...He isn't gonna automatically download them into you. If that were true, then we'd have no need of ANY bible translations.


    instead of praying that god open the word to the and feed them from the bread of life they say there's something wrong with the bible and look for another trans.

    Are you expecting God to do everything exactly YOUR way? Can God not open the Scriptures to individuals AS HE CHOOSES, by leading someone to another translation? What's stopping Him?

    Now...about Psalm 12:7...Is the AV translators' marginal note wrong?
     
    #30 robycop3, Feb 2, 2005
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Good observation, Keith S.

    I am entirely ignorant of Hebrew prose & poetry, & my knowledge of Hebrew tunes doesn't go much beyond 'Havah Nagilah', but I suspect David was writing music to be performed in the Temple, based upon what God had told him.
     
    #31 robycop3, Feb 2, 2005
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Askjo: Robcopy3, Psalms 12:6-7 refer to the Hebrew and Greek mss.

    Not according to the AV translators themselves.
     
    #32 robycop3, Feb 2, 2005
  13. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Who cares about God's preserved Words OR AV translators?
     
    #33 Askjo, Feb 2, 2005
  14. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Hotwheels,

    Thanks for the cursory history lesson-----How does that prove that Psalm 12 refers to the KJV?

    Bro Tony
     
    #34 Bro Tony, Feb 2, 2005
  15. TC

    TC Active Member
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    It doesn't.
     
    #35 TC, Feb 2, 2005
  16. David J

    David J New Member

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    "Who cares about God's preserved Words OR AV translators?",Askjo

    Who cares about reading things in context? LOL
    [​IMG]

    Was the Geneva Bible in error by saying "him” in verse 7? Did the AV1611 make a big boo boo when "him" was a marginal reference like the many marginal references in the real AV1611?

    Does *KJVO Ex Cathedra have the power to alter the context of Psalm 12 to the point where only the KJVO sees the true meaning? LOL, I’m just trying to make a point here about reading the scriptures in full context. So please don’t take this the wrong way.

    Psalm 12:6-7 is one of the weakest KJVO defense walls ever constructed by the myth makers Wilkinson, Ray, Fuller, etc…

    *a special advanced revelation that fell upon the AV1611 translators sometime circa 1611 A.D. It is theorized that the same type of Ex Cathedra feel upon Benjamin Blayney in circa 1769A.D. Modernist known as KJVOist uphold the KJV as being able to correct the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic thereby saying that these advanced revelations restores the true bible. KJVO Ex Cathedra lines up 100% with RCC Ex Cathedra in that it does not happen very often and it can either fortify doctrine and/or change doctrine etc….This vision feel upon a man named Peter Ruckman who was the first to say that mistakes in the KJV was advanced revelation a.k.a Ex Cathedra. For more information about KJVO Ex Cathedra refer to Ruckman’s books about advanced revelations. You can trust Ruckman's visions because he was the first man ever to read Rev and see a 10 foot tall black lipped anti-christ that even John could not see!
     
    #36 David J, Feb 2, 2005
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I cannot believe the length folks go to try to make Ps 12 say that it is preserving God's Word! It doesn't say that, no matter how much you want. Get back on the train, friend.

    And askjo, you've been here long enough and seen the foolishness of trying to make this verse mean "God's Word" refuted, why would you join in with newbies who are ignorant of fact and just swallowing the garbage of Ruckman or Ripper?

    Ps 119:89-90 "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations . . "

    I have no question that God promised to keep His word. His faithfulness in EVERY generation.

    Which begs the question - where is His Word in each generation from 1000 BC when David penned this until 2004?
     
    #37 Dr. Bob, Feb 2, 2005
  18. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

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    Countless poor people die hungry every day(Luke 16:20,22);is letting the poor die of hunger/disease your idea of the NEW paragraph starting in verse 6???;the passage in question is about His word;which I have in my lap right now.

    Psalm 12:6,7 is about His word.
     
    #38 Slambo, Feb 2, 2005
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Slambo: "Psalm 12:6,7 is about His word."

    Which "word"?
    1. the living word of God: Messiah Yeshua
    2. the written word of God: the Holy Bible.
     
    #39 Ed Edwards, Feb 2, 2005
  20. David J

    David J New Member

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    Good question ED.

    Slambo,

    If and when you DO answer, please explain to me why God broke His promise IF your KJVO theory about Psalm 12:6-7 is correct. From the day David penned this Psalm the 7 times theory would be 7 times 7 times 7 etc… I think you see where I’m going with this. If not then ponder some history and you’ll get it.

    Remember that prior to 1611 there was no bible that lined up 100% with the 1611. The current KJV does not line up 100% with the 1611. Please explain this to me with facts and not opinions. I want to see some hard evidence so that I can research this great mystery for myself. As a former KJVO of 7 years I would like to see some evidence! Who knows I might become KJVO again! LOL

    I'm waiting....and waiting... [​IMG]
     
    #40 David J, Feb 2, 2005
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