PSYCHICS

No, you can meditate on just about anything. Meditation is not just on God's words.
Transdental Meditation, which involves much meditation is a cult which leads many to demonic oppression, if not demonic possession. The Bible specifically commands us to meditate on His Word. That must be the object of our meditation.
"The fire of the Holy Spirit," sounds like a convenient Charismatic phrase. There is no fire, only the power that the Holy Spirit makes available to those that are filled with His Spirit, for the purpose of witnessing to others.

"My higher self" is humanistic psychological babbling. It has no place in the Bible. "Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus." Christ comes by the power of His Holy Spirit and dwells in our "heart" which is essentially another word for the mind.

"It is no longer I but Christ that liveth in me." The reference is Gal.2:20, a reference to those that die to Christ every day, live a life of self-denial, self-sacrifice, care not for themselves, but put others and Christ before themselves.

This is one of the biggest excuses for terminating one's "search for God," if you call it that, or for attending church, that there is. If you make the excuse that others in the church are hypocrites, then you have just made yourself one by not attending and pretending to be religious yourself. That is the epitomy of religious hypocrisy. If you were truly spiritual you would stay in the church and make a difference, do something about it. Lame excuses are unacceptable.
God's ordained institutions in this day and age is the local church. He doesn't change the Bible or His way of doing things just for a bunch of complainers.

Your theology is really off here.
God is righteous. His named was blasphemed among both Jews and Gentiles alike. Any time there was sin, his name was blashemed. God did not justify the Gentiles for their sin. He condemned them. Paul demonstrated that both Jews and Gentiles were under sin. If you study the Book of Romans, Paul demonstrates in the first chapter how all the Gentiles are all under sin. In the second chapter he demonstrates how all the Jews are under sin. In the third chapter he demonstrates that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin.

More humanistic psycological babbling--"they call a higher consciionciounsess," but the bible says nothing of the kind. The Bible does mention the mind of Christ. "Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus." But it is not an automatic transaction. In fact the statement is in the form of command, which is so put that it signifies that something of self must be sacrificed.

"The traditions of men make others blaspheme God."
What traditions are you talking of? First off no man, no tradition can make any man blaspheme God. One blasphemes God on his own volition, out of his own will. He chooses to do so; no one forces him to do. It his choice out of his own wicked heart. Do not blame sinful actions on other people, other traditions, etc. People must be held responsible for their own actions.

What are you calling our birthright to share in, and where does it say that Paul says so??

Christ died for our sins, in particular the penalty of our sins, not for our minds.

1John 3:1-3 only applies to us when we get to Heaven, not on this earth. We shall see him as he is, not on this earth, but in Heaven, or when He comes again. We can't see someone who is invisible.

Every believer IS (present tense) a partaker of his Divine nature. We have the Holy Spirit dwelling within ourselves.
DHK

 

I get it Now... This is one of "Satans SO CALLED DEEP Secrets".

They come in HIS NAME not out of it.

Maybe God is found by those who do not seek Him as scriptures said. Those under the law were CONVINCED that others were under a curse, later we find out THEY were under it.

We're not to judge those without but those within. If one is under the law it points the finger the other way (as a decoy) but does the same thing.

The New Covenant is premised upon no longer man teaching but God. If they believe Christ (Who is our former estate through grace) is in them, Let them, some of their fruit is better then those who take His name.


God bless

Seth3

 

DHK Says


No, you can meditate on just about anything. Meditation is not just on God's words.
Transdental Meditation, which involves much meditation is a cult which leads many to demonic oppression, if not demonic possession. The Bible specifically commands us to meditate on His Word. That must be the object of our meditation.

Seth 3 says
His Word is Spirit and His Word is in their hearts already, I don’t see oppression anywhere except in religious circles the bear Christs name. Demonic oppression is seen in scripture through the Pharisees as JESUS defines it adding the YOKE of the law and pointing the finger in JUDGEMENT at others. They sit on MOSES SEAT. ABOVE THE STARS (CHILDREN OF GOD).


DHK says

"The fire of the Holy Spirit," sounds like a convenient Charismatic phrase. There is no fire, only the power that the Holy Spirit makes available to those that are filled with His Spirit, for the purpose of witnessing to others.


Seth3 says

Fire of the Holy Spirit is a SCRIPTURE PHRASE. New covenant is to pour out His Spirit on ALL FLESH, from the LEAST to the GREATEST Jesus DEFINES THESE as those who KEEP and TEACH THE COMMANDMENTS and those WHO BREAK the commandments and teach others to do so. Open your book and LOOK.

DHK says

"My higher self" is humanistic psychological babbling. It has no place in the Bible. "Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus." Christ comes by the power of His Holy Spirit and dwells in our "heart" which is essentially another word for the mind.


Seth3 says,

Who cares how THEY describe it? I don’t judge them. I agree The MIND OF CHRIST


DHK says,


"It is no longer I but Christ that liveth in me." The reference is Gal.2:20, a reference to those that die to Christ every day, live a life of self-denial, self-sacrifice, care not for themselves, but put others and Christ before themselves.


Seth3 says,

Yes its called walking IN LOVE considering others BETTER then yourself.


DHK,

This is one of the biggest excuses for terminating one's "search for God," if you call it that, or for attending church, that there is. If you make the excuse that others in the church are hypocrites, then you have just made yourself one by not attending and pretending to be religious yourself. That is the epitomy of religious hypocrisy. If you were truly spiritual you would stay in the church and make a difference, do something about it. Lame excuses are unacceptable.


Seth3 says,

My search for the Lord was much more fruitful when I left the building, their voices were becoming louder than His. Jesus said His sheep would not listen to a stranger and they would run. YOU yourself stated in another post that church attendence isn’t nessessary, change your mind AGAIN DHK?

You cant make a difference in that system theres no freedom in it. You take a seat listen to a sermon tied together with mans wisdom and you leave. God makes the difference I individual hearts.


DHK says


God's ordained institutions in this day and age is the local church. He doesn't change the Bible or His way of doing things just for a bunch of complainers. Your theology is way off.


Seth3 says,


Jesus said the Father seeks those who worship in Spirit and Truth not in places, He said neither here nor there. I do not regard holy days or Sabbaths I see them as Spiritual inner fulfillments, if you enjoy listening and giving sermons your free to enjoy them. I don’t see real fellowship in it. I see the blessedness in where two or three are gathered.


DHK says

God is righteous.


Seth3 says,
We finally AGREE on something.


DHK says


His named was blasphemed among both Jews and Gentiles alike. Any time there was sin, his name was blashemed. God did not justify the Gentiles for their sin. He condemned them. Paul demonstrated that both Jews and Gentiles were under sin. If you study the Book of Romans, Paul demonstrates in the first chapter how all the Gentiles are all under sin. In the second chapter he demonstrates how all the Jews are under sin. In the third chapter he demonstrates that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin.


Seth3 says,

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles THROUGH YOU, as it is written.


Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, DO by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which SHEW the work of the law written in their hearts, their CONSCIENCE also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Theres the faith WITHOUT THE LAW revealed as the Law testifies of.

As Isaiah Said He was found by those who did not seek Him agreeing with scripture that there are none that seek Him. But was found by those that sought not. Even Christ says you search the scriptures because you think that IN THEM you have eternal life. These bear witness to ME (The Word in your heart already) yet you refuse to come to me that you might have life. These were those under the law to which is testified against in Romans 2. Thinking they were a light to the blind those who had “the embodiment of the truth” same thing today. It nullifies the New Covenant that no longer will man say to his neighbor, “Know the Lord” for ALL shall know me.

Under the law is knowledge of sin only you cannot know God under it. Under IT is the curse, same curse the Pharisees thought OTHERS were under but THEY were the accursed ones (God is righteous).


DHK says


More humanistic psycological babbling--"they call a higher consciionciounsess," but the bible says nothing of the kind. The Bible does mention the mind of Christ. "Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus." But it is not an automatic transaction. In fact the statement is in the form of command, which is so put that it signifies that something of self must be sacrificed.


Seth3 says,

What?


DHK says,

"The traditions of men make others blaspheme God."
What traditions are you talking of? First off no man, no tradition can make any man blaspheme God. One blasphemes God on his own volition, out of his own will. He chooses to do so; no one forces him to do. It his choice out of his own wicked heart. Do not blame sinful actions on other people, other traditions, etc. People must be held responsible for their own actions.

Seth3 says,

Again… Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles THROUGH YOU, as it is written.

Its always the preist or levites (late for bible study) walking pass the injured guy on the road, and the good Samaritan helping him (no bible under his arm) just the love in his heart… Basically THEY SAY, “Lord? When did we see you? The wicked say, “When did we NOT SEE YOU?”


DHK
What are you calling our birthright to share in, and where does it say that Paul says so??

Seth3 says

I think if you read the New testament the pages are filled with what is ours in Christ. HE is our Reward as He was Abrahams reward. Christ IN US is not just a saying. He IS COME in the FLESH. IN US. As HE IS so are we IN THIS WORLD. The Day dawns IN US. The Eternal day. The Divine Nature of Gods love should be glorified in you by His expression of His love in you toward others. Entrusted with the words of God through the Spirit (mind of Christ) given to us. Everything is YES and Amen to us in the Lord, not yes and no. Led by the Spirit, fellowship with God Himself. Eternal life is not , “when I get to heaven” its TO KNOW GOD HERE AND NOW. Maybe THAT’S what the world wants but the church says No not YET its UP THERE. Maybe they ACTUALLY BELIEVE the WORD is NEAR them or IN THEM as Paul said, maybe they don’t have the “religious jargon” but the life. I see more love in them. I’m told by scripture to know others by their fruits.

DHK says

Christ died for our sins, in particular the penalty of our sins, not for our minds.

Seth3 says,

I agree but it was OUR MINDS (Our natural minds) which were at EMNITY with Him which cannot by divine design RECEIVE the things of the Spirit. Thus PHARISEES seed of Cain who killed the Lord because they were under the Curse of the law (Tree of the knowledge of good and evil) was as Cain who SERVED GOD but not by the Spirit of Truth but by the WORKS of HIS HANDS He was the outworking of the Law expressed in the picture.


I had said earlier

Its SCRIPTURE that we change by beholding Him. And when (in our experience) we see Him (who is invisible) we shall see Him as He is for as HE IS SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD.

To which DHK replied

1John 3:1-3 only applies to us when we get to Heaven, not on this earth. We shall see him as he is, not on this earth, but in Heaven, or when He comes again. We can't see someone who is invisible.

I say,

IN THIS WORLD, because TRUE FAITH sees THAT which is UNSEEN. ***IN THIS WORLD*** (it does not say one day up in heaven) His Kingdom come and His WILL BE DONE on EARTH as it is in Heaven. Your twisting scripture. Faith in what is seen is not faith at all. One can indeed see Him who IS invisible Abraham did. No one can “see God” at anytime it’s a paradox.

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Judgement begins with the house of God Now is the time of judgement. God measures back to us now… Judge not LEST you be Judged. We are tested NOW. His Fire tests everthing, our faith, our works. They can be burned but we saved YET By FIRE. Pull others out of the PRESENT FIRE hating the GARMENT STAINED WITH FLESH (SELF RIGHTOUSNESS)

DHK says,

Every believer IS (present tense) a partaker of his Divine nature. We have the Holy Spirit dwelling within ourselves.

I say,

YES IF THEY HAVE THE SPIRIT and LOVE showing themselves AS PARTAKERS of HIS divine nature. Seeing Him as HE IS= LOVE and His love is EXPRESSED THROUGH THOSE who behold Him as SUCH and REFLECT this to the world.

Its not a FORM OF GODLINESS DENYING THE POWER OF GOD. The only way the power of God is severed from ones experience is UNDER THE LAW. Which is as an IMAGE OF GOLD (Faith) or a FORM of GODLINESS but has NOW POWER.

The power of an indestructible life is the life of LOVE against which the fires of Judgement under the law have NO POWER OVER YOU.

God bless

Seth3

 

How unbelievers describe things matters when we talk to them. If you use "higher consciousness" they will think you mean what they mean. They mean it is a natural divine part of us. I used to be a New Ager for many years. It is important to be clear on language and not confuse people. We can't be good witnesses when we mix up terms.

Nowhere in the Bible is any term used liked "higher consciousness." Having the mind of Christ means to have his attitude -- and though Christ is in us as believers, we are still human and not divine. This is not what the New Agers mean by this term at all. What words we use matters very much.


Seth3 says,

Who cares how THEY describe it? I don’t judge them. I agree The MIND OF CHRIST
</font>[/QUOTE]

 

Marcia,

God judges THEM not me, I can't dictate the "terms" they use I see the heart in some of them looking for something bigger and desiring God though they might not use the term. Are all these people the same? No I'm talking about the ones I've known. If we would consider them "of the world" (even though Jesus and paul warns about the pharisitical world at best) then we are not to judge them without.

Actually I see how their use in their language convey a truth in Christ. Whose word was seen in those in Romans, Paul said the word is near you its in your heart just believe. So these people might be off, but I see the church "off" on alot of things. Have you yet to see a conversation here that most agree? So what makes me think anyone here would agree with them if we can't even agree among ourselves.

I could use their same language and express a biblical point.

Christ is The Rock Higher than I (Higher consciouness) The Rock Christ would build His Church on to me is Peters Testimony which was not revealed by man but by God Himself (I see this as an inner revelation. We are to be found in Christ who (if I use their language) is my Higher Self I'm in Him and He's in me.

I don't need to hear of all the "roots" or see Satans so called deep secrets because He works in accordance to Gods Law seen in the Pharisees. But I will not judge these people. What should I do? Yoke them with the law? I think not.


God Bless

Seth3

 

Seth3, I am not telling you to judge New Agers. I am saying that Christians should be careful about using a New Age term such as "higher consciousness" which means something very different to New Agers. It doesn't convey a truth at all -- they view themselves as divine and most of them see Christ as representing a Christ Consciousness (also called higher consciousness) that all men can attain. They do not believe in sin or in needing a Savior.

So I'm not saying you should tell them what to do; I'm saying Christians should not use the term higher consciousness as though it's a Christian term. It misleads unbelievers deeper into their darkness as it confirms their view that Christianity is just a misunderstood version (though less evolved) of the New Age.

 

Thats weird - being in Ireland I had never heard of her, but saw her on Montel on the 27th while we were in the States for a few days.

 

Marcia,

When talking with them I can use their terms as Paul used the terms to those in the Temple who had inscribed on it "To and unknown God" Paul then finds a place of agreement with them from THEIR OWN WORDS, He says, "Just as your own poets say, IN HIM WE LIVE MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING" Paul then declares Christ to them".

I can thus speak to a New Ager and say, " Just as you say "Higher conciencious" is the Rock Higher then I, Christ in us our hope of glory See?

Paul is showing by HIS EXAMPLE in scripture that one can indeed take what those who might not know the Lord and use THEIR WORDS as a bases for sharing Christ with them. In thus doing, you do not curse the darkness but light a candle.

The reward? Some believed in what Paul said, thus, He is shown becoming all things to all men to win the more. Paul is a true example of what love can do, He's not "asserting his rightness" He's being wise as a Serpent and as harmless as a dove in the situation.


God bless

Seth3

 

Paul comes unto them.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and BEHELD YOUR DEVOTIONS, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye IGNORANTLY WORSHIP, HIM declare I UNTO YOU.

He doesn't swear at them, or tell them they are of the devil under the power of darkness. He sees them searching, He realizes they do not know God, as in fact the altar inscribed upon shows this very truth. He shows them that they ignorantly worship and Paul was going to declare Him unto them.

So Paul finds a "common ground" with these people, looking past all the wrong here, he's going to pull out something thats true, something they can relate to, they don't know biblical jargon so Paul uses THEIR WORDS as a basis for gaining them here...

Acts 17:28 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being”; as certain also of YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, For we are also his offspring.

This shows theres nothing evil in the use of their words there ofcourse is truth seen in the use of them as Paul himself shows.

He doesn't barge i saying, "Your the devils offspring" He asserts that indeed WE are also His offspring bringing them in and declaring this to them.

Some mock and some believe... its like that everywhere. But I don't think Paul would have really gotten anywhere insulting them, he came down to their level, took the good and truth in their words and started from there.

God Bless

Seth3

 

So, who on this board are you accusing of doing this?
DHK

 

I agree in using these terms as a way to talk to New Agers. But that is not what you were saying earlier -- it sounded like you were appropriating the term "higher consciousness" as a regular Christian term, or as meaning something similar to what New Agers mean by it, not as a way to dialogue with New Agers. Maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts.

You have to be very clear with New Agers, however, that Christ is not an essential part of all men but that we only have Christ in us through faith. New Agers will not like that and they reject it. They think Jesus was just a spiritual teacher who attained Christ consciousness and that all men can attain this. If you don't make the distinction that Jesus was the unique Son of God and that none of us can have Christ consciousness -- we can only have Christ as Savior through faith -- then you mislead them. Having the mind of Christ as a believer does not make us higher beings -- we are just saved sinners. New Agers reject sin.

 

C4K:
Because Sylvia Browne talks about God (and even last year on Montel Williams she said people had forgotten the "Christ" in Christmas and the real reason for Christmas), a lot of people think she's a Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth. She says in her books that she has a background with some Christian denominations but she also studied non-Christian beliefs quite a bit. She started her own church in 1986, "Novus Spiritus," and calls herself a Gnostic Christian (I am not sure she really is Gnostic but that's her term). She says Jesus did not die on the cross. She rejects Christianity.

She is on Montel Williams a lot, and also on Larry King. She even has published a book of prayers (I think this came out last year) and many other books -- all bestsellers. So people are misled by her.

I get lots of questions about her and many think she is Christian. Of course, even if she claimed to be Christian, that is irrelevant since her "job" is that she claims to contact the dead (and does psychic readings). On that basis alone, we have to reject her beliefs and ideas, no matter what she calls herself. I try to get this point across in my articles and talks.

 

Well you can appropriate it Marcia if it has truth in it. Paul used the words not found in scripture because he found truth in certain words they used.I can see truth in what they are saying. But this is something you have a conviction about and I honor your conviction. Just sharing mine.

God bless

Seth3

 

Seth3, thank you for your post. I used to have "psychic powers" and had many psychic friends (and I was an astrologer). I was a New Ager for most of my adult life.

I do not think the New Age concept of "higher consciousness" has any truth in it because of what is meant by it -- that we are intrinsically god and this is represented by the Higher Self (more spiritually evolved) and that we realize this through attaining higher consciousness. I used to believe this and used this term myself so I am very familiar with it and with what New Agers mean by it.

It's like Mormons who use the term Jesus and God, but their beliefs behind those terms are totally unbiblical. So if a Chritian talks to them about Jesus and God, it can sound like they are agreeing because they even say Jesus died for our sins. But they have another Jesus.

Same with New Agers and higher consciousness -- it has nothing to do with having the mind of Christ.

I am not trying to be argumentative with you and I commend you for wanting to witness to New Agers, but I just felt the need to clarify this some more.

 

Seth,
You have primarily been in a discussion with Marcia, myself, and some other Baptists, and evangelicals. Are you calling us New Agers? If so that is a false allegation, and a serious charge. If not then why do you use those terms. There are no New Agers on this board that I know of.
Your argument is that you use those terms when speaking to those who use them, as the New Agers do, but none of us are New Agers. Therefore your use of the terms is completely out of line. They are unbiblical and contrary to Scripture. It would be the same as if I came and started calling God by the name Allah, and referred to one of his prophets as Muhammed, and spoke of heaven as paradise, and described it in a way that was completely foreign to you. I don't describe things to you in Islamic terms. Why should you speak to us in New Age terms? We use the Bible here.
DHK

 

We are not DHK... Read the TOPIC of DISCUSSION. Go BACK and read the USE of PAULS WORDS to those who were woshipping at an altar inscribed, To an "UNKNOWN GOD" Paul uses THEIR OWN POETS references NOT THE WORD OF GOD to talk to them. THATS what were talking about. Please follow the coversation and then respond.

God Bless

Seth3

 

Seth3, Paul did not use any confusing terms; he did not use a term that was not understood by both his audience and himself. And he clearly condemned idol worship and preached the gospel. In fact, his preaching of Christ's resurrection caused some there to sneer.

I don't think Paul's sermon in Acts 17 is related to using New Age terms like "higher consciousness," which is a term that comes from a New Age context and not a biblical one. It has no meaning in the Bible or within Christian concepts.

 

Point is Marcia, He USED THEIR TERMS Nowhere in scripture will you find "In Him we live and have our being" back then it was considered "new age" probrobly (who knows I'm sure he didn't label it he chose to help it). Paul could look beyond it, use THEIR WORDS which scripture shows him doing. I just used the plain example.

TO ME if I were to see someone use "Higher consciousness" it just SOUNDS like the Mind of Christ (whose thoughts are HIGHER then mine) SEE?

What THEY mean by it? I could care less its Gods job to judge them. I'm to walk in love toward them.


God bless

Seth3

 

No, Paul did not use their terms. You are really stretching it here. He pointed to an idol for a reference point, and used it as an object lesson. He did NOT use any of their terms when preaching the gospel to them.
He quoted a Greek poet once. Often I have heard a preacher make a quote from Shakespeare or someone comparable. That is about the same parallel. He is not using their terms religiously. He is preaching to them Christ, and Christ crucified--the offence of the gospel.

How far did Paul get. He preached about God the creator, who God was. He gave the gospel, and how God commands all men to repent. But when it came right down to the basics of the gospel message, it became an offence to them.

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
DHK

 

I'm not accusing anyone, I'm taking the typical response to them and bring to light a better way through Pauls example. How do you see I have accused anyone?


God Bless

Seth3