Pure unmerited favor "Grace"

Wow some very good points are coming up here.

HanSola,

People are forced to do sometimes what they would not willingly be convinced of doing except by force.

I can promise that the young lady who is overthrown by brute force and held to the ground while she is raped hardly has excercised her will in the matter.

The truth is that many times people have been made to do things against their will.

Like Kismet says, force, trickery,.....and even love!

But one of my points in this topic is that people willingly stay away from Jesus Christ.

I have in my conscience found that my desire is to want to be to Him and not away, willingly!

I say it is God that has made me like that.

I will show another verse that proves God commands light to shine in darkness and everything obeys His command.

I can provide Scripture showing Satan has power over men. I can show that God has power over Satan, angels, and men.

I have already shown you Scripture showing that God has and uses His power over human beings. But you avoid it.

I have not said that I don't volunteer. I have also not called people robots or puppets.

I am fully aware that people are people.

Look at this;

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

This should clearly show you that Satan has and can have power over the minds of people. He is capable of blinding them.

Other translations make it clear....they are unable to see. Unable is inability.

There is no free-will if a person is unable.

Do you think these people are unabled against their will, or in line with their will?

It also clearly says what we preach about.....and this is exactly what Calvinists preach about. Jesus Christ as LORD and us as mere servants.

We do not preach about or give glory to our wills even though we know we have wills.

We know God has done this wonderful work. It is He that commands and He commands Satan is drowned out by Light, and we see. The ultimate power is not Satan or us.....it is God!

To everybody;

This thread and it's development is a fine example of bondage. I am bound to what I percieve as truth and I have no free-choice to believe what HanSola believes. I simply cannot muster it in me to choose opposite of what I believe.

How can HanSola claim free-choice when he can't freely choose to believe what I believe? Sounds like we are bound to what we believe and are hardly free in the matter at all.

In one hand I hold Job 12 and in the other hand I hold the writings of HanSola. I read both writings and find that I freely and most willingly make a choice.

My choice is to keep open the Word of God as shown in Job and to crumple up the writings of HanSola. I can't choose to believe the writings of HanSola over those in Job.

I am held captive.

I come to the conclusion that God does indeed have power over people and He excercises it as He wills. I see it in Job and I am captivated by it.

So I have no free-choice but am rather held in bondage to the Word of God.

HanSola is also in bondage. HanSola cries out loud and clear the battle hymns of free-will and free-choice even though Job shows that God has and does control people.

The battle cry of free-will holds HanSola captive and HanSola is bound to that perception.

HanSola I ask this of you now......if you are so free to choose you should be able to freely choose in an instant to believe me.

I bet you cannot do it because I know you do not have free-choice. You are just as bound as I am. You are in bondage to what your mind percieves as truth and you cannot freely choose to beleive anything other than what holds your mind captive.

This alone proves that wills are not free but rather captivated to what is in ones own mind.

The now question is....what has your mind been washed with?

The truth shall set free! Free from what.....truth or deception?

Ponder.....

KJB

 

Ray,

And may I point out a good and true stretch!

Ray, I am aware that for a person to be saved there must exist a person to save. I know there are responders.

How about if I use a little extra of Ephesians 2?

I think Ephesians 2 applies and fits in perfectly.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

(Hardly sounds like free-will there.)

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

(This is clear that God made us alive. From death to life according to what? His mercy and His great love for us, not ours for Him. He does not just sit and wait, hope, wish, and dream....He made us alive together with Christ .)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works , which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

(His workmanship.)

Being brought from death to life...how is that not a gift? How does that mean people do not respond? Of course they respond like the man in the tomb. Jesus says get up and the dead man rises and gets up.

KJB

[ November 07, 2005, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: King James Bond ]

 

Ray,

I beg of you to reconsider;

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

God made us alive because of His great love for us.

Yes He is rich in mercy.....because we were no better than everybody or anybody else.

Our hearts were not in the right place. Ouyr wills were not in the right place. Our minds were not in the right place. We were as dead sinful enemies.....by nature children of wrath.

It is not saying (by grace you were offered salvation). He made us that were dead alive. He did it! It is His work! It is Him we praise! It is Him that loved us! It is Him that is great!

It is by grace you have been saved. Pure and unmerited favor that God has had upon you for no reason of yourself. It is only that He choose to have mercy on you. Nothing more and nothing less.

KJB

 

I am writing to all of you who share the same precious faith we have, faith given to us by Jesus Christ, our God and Savior, who makes us right with God.

May God bless you with his special favor and wonderful peace as you come to know Jesus, our God and Lord, better and better.

Faith is a gift and it is given by grace.

KJB

 

Ray,

I used the NLT.

You posted,

Salvation itself, by grace through faith is a gift given to sinners.

It is grace that saves sinners.....Ephesians 2:8;

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.....

Tell me what part or parts is from yourself?

You posted,

Ummmmm lets see now...which part of "I hold to the London Baptist Confession of faith" would you not understand?

"Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground. I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free .

I would say God can save His people. Even those "my people" were obstinate stiff necked rebels. And He certainly has the ability to set free.

Acts 7:51 clearly says people resist the Holy Spirit but it does not claim that people resist His ultimate saving grace. It is speaking of the natural bent and sinful will of man in his nature of resistance and active rebellion to God.

People by nature resist the Holy Spirit but they cannot ultimately resist the Holy Spirit.

May I ask you if John the Baptist had to ask for or resist the Holy Spirit to come into him?

Did God make John the Baptist who he was, or was it John and other men that made John who he was?

Here is a verse to help out;

"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb ."

A for John 5:40......Well you know Ray ole chap......I would suggest you read how those in this natural resistance cross over from death to life. Start a little earlier in John 5;

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

It is quite clear that life is given to the dead.....and not all the dead are given life. The dead that hear will hear, and the dead that do not hear will not hear......but I can assure you His sheep will hear His voice. And they will live.

Isaiah 63:10; Please read more of the chapter... http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=isaiah%2063;&version=31; I am not going to flood the board here;

prophecynut;

I agree! Faith is a gift.

Phil 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

KJB

 

"So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

What does not depend on a mans willing or running?

The mercy of God does not depend on a mans will.

Our Sovereign God shows mercy as He wills and to who He wills. It does not depend on anything in the person. There exists nothing in the person of their own that merits His mercy.

Not even their will!

Some people will cry foul on God and say thats not fair. They do not think it is fair that God could raise a person up and also destroy the same person. They cry God must treat everybody exactly the same. So there must be free-will!

“Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.”

That really says it folks. It says what it means and it means what it says.

He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. That means we only existed in His thoughts.

He chose to adopt a certain people before He ever made them. All according to the kind intention of His will.

There is no other to thank! His will, will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

John 6:39, “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”

And we give all thanks to our God.

KJB