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Purpose driven life ...

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Spirit and Truth, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    This should probably be posted on one of the Passion threads, but since it started here, I will post it here:

    SBC:

    Typical response for one who does not want to answer the questions or deal with the issues.

    You might want to go back and answer the questions or else we will just assume you are a lot of smoke with little fire.

    And while you are at it, can you refer me to that passage that says "pride and compromise usually go hand in hand." You do not want to be guilty of misusing scripture.

    S&T:

    I am still smiling......ok...let's deal with the issues as you requested. The first issue, is that the movie mixed scripture with the words of men. This is forbidden in scripture.

    Proverbs 30

    5 Every Word of God is refined, He is a shield to those who seek refuge in Him.
    6 Do not add to His Words, that He not reprove you, and you be found a liar.

    Secondly, Mel sourced the visions of Catholic mystics to fill in the blanks where God was not evidently competent enough to do. How does the Almighty feel about this:

    Deuteronomy 18

    There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    12 For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.


    Thirdly, Mel prays to Mary and saints, which is forbidden in scripture, and exalts Mary throughout the movie.

    Exodus 20

    1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
    2 I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
    3 You shall not have any other gods before Me.
    4 You shall not make a graven image for yourself, or any likeness in the heavens above, or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth;
    5 you shall not bow to them, and you shall not serve them; for I am Jehovah your God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third and on the fourth generation, to those that hate Me;

    Quite a serious warning...

    Fourth, the musical soundtrack was given to the person scoring the movie after he prayed to Mary for guidence. Now, according to scripture, if the above statements that I have made are truthful, then as a watchman and Pastor, you should be sounding the alarm and shouting "fire" to get the people out of the theatre instead of endorsing the movie, which has become a "sacred calf" among the evangelicals, and now even Baptists. [Grahm, Warren, etc]:

    Exodus 32
    3 And all the people broke off the rings of gold in their ears, and they brought to Aaron.
    4 And he took them from their hand and formed it with an engraving tool. And he made it a casted calf. And they said, These are your gods, O Israel, who made you go up from the land of Egypt.

    We all know how that turned out....

    I could do this for pages and pages, but I think that those with ears to hear have gotten my point, and remember:

    James 3

    1 My brothers do not be many teachers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.


    This movie should be marked and avoided.
     
  2. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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  3. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    S&T:

    Still smiling.......


    SBC:

    By the way, can you refer me to that passage where pride and compromise go hand-in-hand?


    S&T:

    Never said it was scripture. That was a smokescreen that you created. Someone once told me that there will be a lot of smart men in hell. That has always been on my mind. I can only pray that the sheep of the confused "leadership" find another pasture to graze in before it is too late.
     
  4. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    S&T:

    You have demonstrated clearly why people from the far right are rarely taken seriously. Thanks for the reminder.

    If you choose to address the issues or to actually discuss legitimate biblical concerns, please let me know.

    By the way, BB is simply occasional entertainment for me (as it must be for you with all the smiling). It also serves as a reminder from what God has delivered me. Nothing more - nothing less.

    1 Cor 4.1-4
     
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    SBC, I used to say I was from the far right until I met those off the deep end (like some of those named above). [​IMG]

    Diane
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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  7. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Dear Pastor Larry,
    I have not read this book. But the statement I made is in light of the posting of excerpts from this book.

    What I mean is that I believe all this catering to those outside the church is not necessary. All that is necessary for drawing people to the gospel is found instituted within the church and is included in the command we recognize to the church as the Great Commission. I do not believe anything but the submission to the commission of the church is required to fulfill this, certainly we do not have to seek ways to make the presentation more attractive than what Christ has set in the church.

    Does that help?

    bro. Dallas
     
  8. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    SBC:

    You have demonstrated clearly why people from the far right are rarely taken seriously. Thanks for the reminder.

    S&T:

    No problem...here is another one:

    Revelation 3

    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    SBC:

    If you choose to address the issues or to actually discuss legitimate biblical concerns, please let me know.


    S&T:

    I have been, but for some reason you can not see them. It's okay.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I agree with that in principle, but I must confess, I think there is a valid difference between making it "more attractive" and making it "understandable." Trust me, I have serious problems with Rick Warren and Saddleback, but I contend that he has hit on some good things.

    To follow what seems to be your logic, we disqualify the use of sound systems, printed Bibles, etc. I don't think it is valid to say "What did the church at Jerusalem use?" and confine ourselves to no more. They lived in first century Jerusalem. We live in 21st century America. The message is still the same, but we must communicate it understandable ways.

    I view something like PDL primarily as discipleship, not evangelism. It is teaching people that life is all about God, a lesson sorely needed in our day and time. I have read only about half of the book. I have read all of PDC twice and taken quite a few pages of notes on it.

    I think we need to draw careful distinctions between "more attractive" and "more understandable."
     
  10. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Evidently your contextual abuse of Scripture never ceases.
     
  11. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Larry and I have similar views on some of these issues (although I take things a few steps further than he). I think one question that is vital to this discussion is this: is what happens in the NT church as described in Acts prescriptive or descriptive???

    I argue that that what we are given is primarily descriptive. What is prescriptive is the proclamation of the message itself (not the methods employed). Paul clearly illustrates this distinction.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I think it is mostly descriptive ... The epistles are prescriptive. In Acts, you have a number of new things as the church gets started ... Those new things (e.g., sign gifts, direct apostolic authority, etc.) do not continue til today.
     
  13. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    S&T quoted:

    Revelation 3
    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    SBC commented:

    Evidently your contextual abuse of Scripture never ceases.

    S&T:

    Since I know that you are interested in equal weights and measures, would you then mind comenting on the movie where they have Jesus saying to Mary "Behold mother [ words of man ] I make all things new" [ a passage out of context from the book of Revelation ]

    also, the scene where the "good " thief says "I Dismas " [ not recorded in scripture ] and then mixes it with a passage from scripture. making it appear to be the Word of God.
     
  14. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Some more scripture out of "context":

    Revelation 22
    17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And the one hearing, let him say, Come! And the one thirsting, let him come; and the one desiring, let him take of the water of life freely.
    18 For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book.
    19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book.
    20 The One testifying these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly. Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus!
    21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen.


    Maybe you can pass this on to Mel. He may be interested since he added to the Word of God when he had the actor playing Jesus say to Mary:

    "Behold mother...I make all things new."

    Here is the original scripture as given to John by Jesus:

    Revelation 21

    5 And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true.


    Wow...he both added AND subtracted from the Word. I hope he is enjoying the money.......
     
  15. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    S&T:

    While it is obviously a waste of time to try and reason with someone who is unreasonable and illogical, I only hope that you are consistent with your logic as defined above.

    If you have ever even explained in modern vernacular what the Scriptures "mean", you have violated the Scripture above (as you interpret it).

    Of course I don't expect you to even see this illogical beam protruding from your sanctimonious eye.
     
  16. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Still smiling.......careful.......the Pastoral "love" for the sheep is oozing out all over the place. :- )

    Check out the list of "leadership" who openly endorsed the "historically" and "Biblically" accurate movie.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/3748.html#000011

    Maybe your time would be better spent helping them sharpen their discernment skills, instead of evaluating me. Hopefully, all of the unprotected sheep will find new pastures to graze in with less choking hazards.
     
  17. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Thankfully you are not one of my sheep. It is sheep like you who make shepherds want to slaughter some of their lambs (figuratively speaking of course :D ).

    I am very familiar with those who have endorsed the movie. I am not sure what this has to do with anything.

    I am actually trying to discover that gift of infallible discernment that you seem to believe you have (although it has been repeatedly demonstrated how you abuse the text for your own agenda).

    One of the primary ways I am presently protecting the sheep is by teaching them how to flee the legalistic boundaries of men who place their own traditions and preferences on an equal plane with the Word and then have the audacity to accuse others of doing the same.

    Consistency is so difficult in the land in which you dwell. But then again, if you are blind and cannot see the inconsistency (or ignorant and simply cannot recognize it), then it is easier to pitch your tent in the land of boundaries and cast judgment upon all those outside your camp.

    Thanks for the regular entertainment. [​IMG]
     
  18. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    It appears to me these questions have been asked for discussion of the movie. But at the same time they were asked perhaps expecting everyone to jump on the same wagon.

    This then creates the disappointment, the boundaries, the pitching of tents, etc. etc. and usually results in the silence of the lambs imho.

    Were the questions asked in order to draw out those in opposition so they could be ridiculed, accused and stepped on? Or were they asked in honesty realizing that there are some who are going to receive this film as heresy? :confused:

    Ignorance is due to lack of opportunity to study and learn and know the issue, I don't think anyone has exhibited that characteristic.

    Brother Dallas
     
  19. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    SBC:

    Thankfully you are not one of my sheep. It is sheep like you who make shepherds want to slaughter some of their lambs (figuratively speaking of course ).


    S&T:

    Not remotely possible, as my "super" discernment is functioning at optimum level [ thanks for noticing ]. By recommending this movie, you are in fact, leading your sheep to the spiritual slaughter. By putting your stamp of approval on it, you are telling them that mysticism [ forbiden in the Bible ] and changing the Word of God is okay.


    S&T earlier:

    Check out the list of "leadership" who openly endorsed the "historically" and "Biblically" accurate movie.

    SBC responded:

    I am very familiar with those who have endorsed the movie. I am not sure what this has to do with anything.

    S&T:

    I didn't think you would, but I still remain hopeful.


    SBC:

    I am actually trying to discover that gift of infallible discernment that you seem to believe you have (although it has been repeatedly demonstrated how you abuse the text for your own agenda).

    S&T:

    Abuse is in the "eye" of the beholder. Judging by some of the PM's that I am getting, it appears that others think I am doing quite well.


    SBC:

    One of the primary ways I am presently protecting the sheep is by teaching them how to flee the legalistic boundaries of men who place their own traditions and preferences on an equal plane with the Word and then have the audacity to accuse others of doing the same.


    S&T:

    You are right. That Bible is quite legalistic. Maybe you should recommend zen to them, because in that "religion" everything is acceptable. We need an all inclusive, can't we just compromise Bible that will set us all free from God's rules. [ no mysticism, don't change the Word, etc ]. The message is a good start, but not quite there yet. Maybe Mel will publish a "Passion" version so that all of the "leadership" will have something else to endorse.

    SBC:

    Thanks for the regular entertainment.

    S&T:

    Don't thank me. It appears that others here are finding what you say to be entertaining in a perplexing sort of way.
     
  20. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    Boundary marker people have a tendency to embrace one another. It is a part of the cycle. They all wear the same t-shirts (external identities) and look with disdain upon those who prefer hawaiian shirts :D

    Of course I do not even expect the boundary- focused to grasp what I mean by this but those who have been delivered from such a mindset know perfectly well.

    Another sure sign of the pseudo-righteous: they dwell in extremes. As I have said before, it is always easier to attack the straw man than to deal with the reality. After all the big bad wolf can only blow down the house of straw.
     
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