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Featured Question concerning sin.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Jeremy Myers wrote in part:

    Though sin passed from Adam to all people, I believe that this passage of sin stopped with Jesus Christ. How? Well, that is partly what Paul is explaining in Romans, but he talks about it elsewhere as well (cf. 2 Cor 5:21). Jesus became sin. He took on sin. He has cleansed the world of all sin. Yes, all people.

    No, I do not believe in universal salvation. I am not a universalist.

    I do not believe that people receive eternal life by having their sins forgiven. I believe that all sins, past, present, and future, of all people have already been done away with in Jesus Christ, through His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no longer any “sin issue” with God. He has been propitiated, satisfied, or whatever other theological term you want to use. Sin is not what keeps people out of heaven, for sin has been done away with. Today, sin is not imputed because Jesus has done away with sin.

    The reason that not all people become children of God is because they do not have life. God’s life in us is the issue; not sin. We receive God’s life (also called eternal life) by believing in Jesus for it. This is what He promises (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47, etc.).

    So what keeps people out of God’s family? What causes eternal separation from God? Not sin, for that has been done away with in Jesus Christ. Instead, people do not join God’s family and end up separated eternally from God because they never received God’s life through faith in Jesus.

    In many ways, we are somewhat like the people who lived during the time from Adam to Moses. Sin is not imputed to us because Jesus has fulfilled the law and done away with sin. But like the people who lived from Adam to Moses, we still die. They died because sin and death did pass down to them from Adam. But what about us? If Jesus did away with sin, why do we die? (taken from: https://redeeminggod.com/sin-is-not-imputed-where-there-is-no-law/) (bold was mine for emphasis)​


    The purpose of this thread is to explore the parameters of this thinking. I suggest you read the rest of the brief that I posted from before you make your remarks. It is very short.

    Please note: This in no means concerns universal salvation. So, please lay aside any comments to that effect.

    Why or why not is this presentation scriptural?

    Be certain to include Scripture with comments.
     
  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    It’s heretical. To say ppl have eternal life, but not because their sins are forgiven, is flat out heresy. She needs marked and avoided.
     
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  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    She is not a she, but he is a contributor to "RedeemingGod.com"

    Does not John 3 present that belief is the single qualification of eternal life?
     
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    My bad. I thought it said Joyce, not Jeremy.

    #Oof
     
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  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    This right here is just plain awful…


    “I believe that all sins, past, present, and future, of all people have already been done away with in Jesus Christ, through His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no longer any “sin issue” with God.”

    If they have already been done away with, all ppl as he states, then everybody is saved.
     
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  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Does the article not state in the second line of the quote, "No, I do not believe in universal salvation. I am not a universalist."

    He is presenting is that Christ bore all sin of all time. That is not some unusual point of view.
    He is presenting that no one is cast into eternal punishment as a result of sin, that is also not some unusual point of view.
    He is presenting that belief (faith) alone is the single qualifier of eternal life, that would not be presenting something unusual.

    Is there a sin issue with God?

    I think that may be the issue that we should search for the answer in Scriptures.
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Consider also.

    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. Rom 8:3

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

    John 3:5 KJV Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    V-6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. --- Joel 2:28 All flesh?

    But one might ask where does that believeth come from? What is it?

    Romans 8:4 Darby in order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit.

    Now. God made a statement a long time ago of which I have a question or two.

    Joel 2:28,29 YLT And it hath come to pass afterwards, I do pour out My Spirit on all flesh, And prophesied have your sons and your daughters, Your old men do dream dreams, Your young men do see visions. And also on the men-servants, and on the maid-servants, In those days I do pour out My Spirit.

    Does all flesh in Joel 2:28 mean all flesh or not?

    Also consider.
    John 7:39 YLT and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    After when? After what? All flesh all at one time? On who. when? On the day of Pentecost following the resurrection was the Spirit poured on all there or, " as many as the Lord our God shall call".

    Is the wording of this verse relative to the dispensation of the Spirit? Rom 8:23 YLT And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;

    Does the Spirit of Truth have anything to do with believeth?

    By using first ahead of fruit imply there to be other fruit of like kind later? All flesh?

    Now one more point relative to believeth, belief, faith and the Spirit. Consider what faith must be.

    Again.
    John 7:39 YLT and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
    Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith?
    Hearing, through word (declaration) of God Rom 10:17

    What declaration of God relative to the glorification of Jesus was heard that resulted in ( the receiving of the Spirit )?

    That is ----- the faith----- It is the death of the Son and being raised out of the dead by the Father who also gave him glory.
    The Son Jesus received from the Father the promise of the Spirit and then shed it forth upon ? us.

    Verses

    Gal 1:1 YLT Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --
    Hebrews 5:7,8 YLT who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,
    Phil 2:7-9 YLT but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
    1 Peter 1:21 YLT who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God.
    Acts 2:33 YLT at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;


    And to be honest I am not sure where that leaves me in what I think about the OP. It may be correct.
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    then you do not believe in what the Bible teaches!

    Listen to Jesus Christ

    "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)

    "And some were present at the same time reporting to Him of the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. And answering, Jesus said to them, Do you suppose that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans because they suffered such things? I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were sinners above all men who lived in Jerusalem? I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:1-5)

    And Peter

    "And hearing this, they were stabbed in the heart, and said to Peter and to the other apostles, Men, brothers, what shall we do? Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to forgiveness of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:37-39)
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    more unbiblical nonsense!
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    HERESY, as this teaches UNIVERSAL SALVATION, as ALL have already been saved!
     
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    He can say he is not a universalist but that is what his viewpoint necessitates. And yes, Romans 6:23 shuts this whole line of thinking down. Move on.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 5:19-21, ". . . Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. . . ."

    Revelation 21:8, ". . . But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. . . ."

    Revelation 21:27, ". . . And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. . . ."

    John 3:3, ". . . Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . ."
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mathew 18:3, ". . . Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. . . ."

    Matthew 19:14, ". . . Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. . . ."

    Mark 10:14-15, ". . . Jesus . . . said unto them, Allow the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ."

    Luke 18:16-17, " . . . Jesus called them unto him, and said, Allow little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. . . ."
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    This is bizarre. There are probably a hundred objections to it, but will not Galatians 5:19-20 do for starters? Or am I missing something?

    Edit: Oops! Sorry @37918! You were there before me.
     
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  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    In the Scriptures, the exception of the "second death" and perhaps a few other mentions, the uses of "death" refer to the physical body ceasing.

    This is part of the discussions with Nicodemus about eternal life, and also is found in John 5: "Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

    The Scriptures teach that when folks without Christ die, then they face the judgement. But, there is "...now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8)

    Also, if one were to take the blood part of the yearly atonement sacrifice, there was no distinguishing made as to application. It was for all in the nation including the foreigners and unbelievers. It was not conditional, but twice offered, once for the priest and then once for the people.

    However, not all the atonement was the blood.

    Note: I am not defending the article, but am presenting as if I did so that others may present their thinking.

    For the record: I have long separated the blood part of the atonement from the death and resurrection and posted such on the BB. Doing so brings a greater agreement to the balance of both the OT picture and the NT statements. However, I do not accept that just because humankind stand as pre-law believers that God "winks" at anything done. The wages of merely being born results in physical death. After that - judgement for the unbeliever and eternal life for the believer.
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    All these verses are wonderful, however they do not mention that the sin is not covered by the blood shed for all humankind. Humankind will never stand in judgement and be able to claim that God's blood was limited or in some manner not beneficial to them.

    Also, at that judgement, human kind are not judged concerning sin, but belief.

    Note: I am not defending the article, but am presenting as if I did so that others may present their thinking.

    For the record: I have long separated the blood part of the atonement from the death and resurrection and posted such on the BB. Doing so brings a greater agreement to the balance of both the OT picture and the NT statements. However, I do not accept that just because humankind stand as pre-law believers that God "winks" at anything done. The wages of merely being born results in physical death. After that - judgement for the unbeliever and eternal life for the believer.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If all sins for all people are already covered and forgiven, it seems John was mistaken when he stated that if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive our sins.

    Why confess you f it’s already covered?

    peace to you
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins:
    \ for if ye believe not that I am he
    , ye shall die in your sins.



    Does not look as if these sins were forgotten
     
  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Rev 21:8
     
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