Question for Calvinists: Acts 16:30-31

Yes he was.

No one can be saved apart from faith.

Scripture teaches that no one can have faith unless it is granted that he believe by God.

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he for they are spiritually discerned (I Corinthians 2:14).

Everyone must choose to place faith in Christ in order to be saved.

No one will choose to do that apart from receiving a new heart from God- having their stony hearts replaced by hearts of flesh. God must change the heart of the sinner SO THAT he WILL be willing to CHOOSE to believe in Christ.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

...Bob

 

I have been reading Kenneth Keathley recently and really liked his description of the "ambulatory model" of salvation. In a nutshell, the "sinner" you and I are in critical condition and being rushed to the emergency room, but not so critical that we are unable to "reject" the life giving services of the medical personnell. I am convinced that God has designed into the fabric of creation and soteriology this ability to reject, by default, one can call this free will. I have never asserted man has complete libertarian free will, rather I fall into the "camp" of soft libertarian free will.

Furthermore, I am convinced from scripture, that God does indeed "raise up" and "utilize" certain people throughout redemptive history, He can and does because he is God, however I do not see this as the "norm" for all. Could these "key" individuals have "rejected" the role God had for them, I cannot answer except to say, if they could and did, then certainly God would have accomplished purposes with another.

I do not accept "open theism" for I freely acknowledge the omni...ness of God in all aspects. However, I do not think we always understand the "open" brothers, as we often label them with the philosophy that they feel that God cannot know all things, I think, although I may be wrong, that they feel that God chooses to limit himself.

I absolutely marvel at the sovereignty of God in that He is able to create a universe and creatures with some degree of freedom and still accomplish His purposes and desires.

I do not think it fair to imply (if that was indeed your intent) that any of us who do not hold to the DoG, have a diminished view of sin. Forgive me, if I misinterpreted your intent here.

I do think that the DoG's and non-cals do generally have slight differences in the concept of depravity, but it is more in degree than anything else.

Hope this helps to see inside my mind a bit.

Mercy, Peace and Love in abundance.

 

Let's put to rest forever the idea that faith is a work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; not of works...."

 

1. Total agreement, however, where we often diverge is that in the DoG, God grants this faith in limited fashion. I, speaking only for myself, feel that all of mankind retain this ability to express faith, and yes some choose to express that faith, and believe, while others do not. Remember, this goes to the fact that we view depravity differently.

2. As for II Corinthians 2:14, I, speaking only for myself again, see Paul simply emphasizing the spirtual truth that those who are outside of the household of faith regard spiritual things as foolishness. If/when they experience salvation and the indwelling of the HS, then they are no longer foolishness.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Its hard to know the details in the jailer's life. If someone turns to Christ and has no understanding of sin- is that possible?

I did not intend to imply non-Calvinists have a low view of sin by my comment. My point was that to understand Calvinism (even though I disagree on small areas) in general, one must first think deeply about sin and what it is.

Example: If you are a father and a 30 year old man looks at your 12 year old daughter with lustful intent and you knew about it, how would you feel towards that man? In reality most us would want to destroy him... Now... How does God feel that we have looked upon many woman that way? Thats just one area of sin alone. Sin against God is infinitely evil and God sends people to hell for it. Think deeply about that. Sorry if that is a bit off topic.

 

I enter the Calvinism/Ariminianism debate with a degree of trepidation. One doesn't have to read too far in these threads to see that high passions get involved. Please bekind and gentle with me, and if I should inadvertently offend anyone, I am really, really sorry in adavance.

First of all, we are most certainly called to repent and trust in Christ (eg. Mark 1:15), but the important point to observe is that both faith and repentance are gifts of God (Eph 2:8; Acts 11:18), and it is clear that these gifts are not given to everybody since not everybody repents and believes. So faith and repentance may be works in a sense, but they are works that we cannot carry out until God first works in us. When Lydia came to faith, it was not Paul's preaching that opened her heart, nor did she open her own heart. No; 'The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul' (Acts 16:14).

Secondly, someone once asked the Lord Jesus what he had to do to be saved, and got a very different answer.

'And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"' (Luke 10:25f).

Interesting question. Why does the Lord Jesus give the lawyer such a different answer to that which Paul gave the jailor? The reason is that the lawyer had no conviction of sin; he was merely testing Him. So our Lord referred him to the law (Gal 3:24). The whole purpose of the parable of the good Samaritan was to show this man that he could not keep the law.

Why does Paul not refer the jailor to the law? The reason must be that he was already convicted of his sin. He was no longer worried about the prisoners; Paul had already told him that no one had escaped (v28). No, the jailor, having heard Paul and Barnabus singing hymns, and then seeing their chains fly off suddenly realised that the Christian God was the true God, and God graciously opened his eyes to see that he was a sinner in need of salvation.

Steve

 

The concepts may be, in the end, very similar. However, the major differences lie in the "how" and the "why" of regeneration. But, I've always said that the best of Arminians still argue for some type of work on God's part to make the sinner aware of their need of Him.

Perhaps. I tend to be a bit more in line with the Puritans here. The Puritans thought that there could be a series of awakenings. Now, I do think the "lightning bolt" thing can and does happen. But, I also think that there are many cases where the regenerating work of the Spirit takes a period of time--sometimes very long.

Of course, I don't agree. The challenge that I see in this idea is that the Bible says some very damning things about the heart of man. To my knowledge, never does it say that "out of the heart comes faith." The "virtues" of the heart of the natural man are always listed as murder, lust, etc.

My lack of faith in the human heart (which I derive from Scripture) does not give me any confidence in man's ability to be good, do good, or choose God.

In another post, you mentioned the book by Keathley talking about the sinner being in critical condition. As respected as Keathley is, I think his assertion (as you've reported it) completely misses the mark. Why? The Bible says in Genesis 6: the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every ​intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. This passage clearly places the cause of the wickedness of man in man's heart--a heart that intends and thinks only evil continually. Genesis 8 tells us the situation of man has not changed because of the flood: the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. So man has not changed. Instead, God has taken it upon Himself to demonstrate His grace (common grace) to all men in that He does not destroy them en masse.

Furthermore, Jeremiah 17 describes the heart by saying: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? The word translated by the ESV as "desperately sick" has been translated "desperately wicked" in other translations. The root idea of this word is sickness...but it is an incurable sickness. It is actually used of David's son that he had with Bathsheba. God afflicted the son so that he became "sick." The sickness, based on the use of the word, is incurable and, generally, suggest "as good as dead."

In Matthew 15, Jesus says: [18] But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. [19] For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

The desperately wicked, only evil continually heart is the problem. When one gets to Paul and sees his description of man as "dead" it is easy to understand, for it conforms to the rest of the Bible.

So, man is not in critical condition. He is already dead.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Thanks for sharing. So we (I) will have to continue to wrestle with such things.

 

There are two kinds of people in this world - regenerate and unregenerate people. That's it. We can put people in this box or that box, but really this is what there is. Unregenerate man has no fear of God, hates God's law, cannot please God, will not be subject to God's law, and isn't convicted for sinful living. Regenerate man is different.

There are some people in this world who are content living in sin. There are some who aren't. Lot fit into the second group. He was vexed by the wickedness of Sodom all around him, yet he stayed there until the angels literally took him outside the city. Then, rather than fleeing to the mountain, he takes refuge in another city, but isn't happy there either. Children of God can be disobedient, but they'll be miserably disobedient. Why? Because they have God's law written on their hearts and God chastens them.

Being born again isn't something that makes you feel good. Instead, it makes you feel bad. When one is born again he/she realizes the sinful state he/she is in and realizes something must be done. When one is convicted of sin, that person needs a remedy. The remedy is Christ. The men on the day of Pentecost asked Peter, "men and brethren, what shall we do?" They had been pricked in their hearts and needed a remedy. Peter says believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, everyone of you. This jailor needs a remedy. He needs a healing balm. Paul gives him the only thing that can make a sinsick sinner feel relief and comfort, the only hiding place for sinners, the Lord Jesus Christ. Believe, says Paul. Jesus is the only name in which is salvation. The problem that exists today amongst Christians is that many only consider the power of Christ to save from hell. Christ isn't confined to only that. He isn't only the God of eternity, but the God of time as well. I'm glad Christ has saved me from eternal hell, and I'll be praising Him forever for that salvation, but that wouldn't mean much to me now if it didn't save me in this current world in which I live. The gospel is about bringing God's people to a knowledge of salvation, to a knowledge of the finished work of Christ, which is able to save them. Jesus Christ saves, not only from hell, but also from present troubles. He saves from despair, giving us that great hope which we earnestly expect. The truth of the gospel saves us from ignorance. The peace and rest we have in believing that those in Christ cannot fall saves us from despair.

 

A very good response.