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Question relative to 1 Peter 2:24

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by percho, Mar 26, 2024.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    1 Peter 2:24 YLT who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,

    Does that come from Isa 53:6 ? All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    That took place on the fourteenth day of the first month.

    Considering the following:
    1 Cor 15:17 and if Christ hath not risen, [As stated in V 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:] vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;

    Where were our sins, the iniquity of us all, on the fifteenth?
    On the sixteenth?
    On the seventeenth?
    On the eighteenth?

    Where was his body on
    15th, 16th, 17th, 18th,
     
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    WEDNESDAY Nisan 14th —Just after sunset— Mat. 26:20—“Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.” —Then came Gethsemane and the arrest, the religious trial before day, the trial before Pilate in the morning, the crucifixion by noon.

    Mark 15:42-43—“And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath...” —Joseph of Arimathea went unto Pilate and requested the body of Jesus which he buried in his own tomb.

    Mark 15:47—“And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.”

    What the scriptures tell us:

    THURSDAY Nisan 15th Mat. 27:62—“Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate.” And secured a watch for the tomb.

    John 19:31—“For that sabbath day was an high day...”

    Lev. 23:6—“And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD...”

    Lev. 23:7—“Ye shall do no servile work therein.”

    FRIDAY Nisan 16th Mark 16:1—“And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.”

    Luke 23:56—“And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments...”

    SATURDAY Nisan 17th Luke 23:56—“And rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.”

    Mat. 28:2—“And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.”

    SUNDAY Nisan 18th Luke 24:1—“Now upon the first day of the week, very early on the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.”

    Luke 24:2—“And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.”

    Luke 24:3—“And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.”

    Lev. 23:10-11—“Then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest...On the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.”

    You can see the details for these days at:
    CHRONOLOGY OF THE CRUCIFIXION WEEK by Wayne Carver.

    He does a pretty good quick rundown of everything, on those days, etc.

    That is saying and proposing the prospect
    of Jesus Not Raising from the dead, at all, ever.

    Then, we'd be in our sins with no Savior Who Rose from the dead
    and there would be no value in any faith in that.

    Otherwise, the sins of all saved souls are affectively forgiven
    when they are saved, from the time of Adam.

    God Provided a Lamb for Adam.

    And He was Jesus,
    as a Lamb Slain before the Foundation of the World,
    meaning that Jesus' Saving Efficacy was applicable in the Old Testament,
    before His actual Accomplishment in His death, burial, and resurrection,
    as if He had been Slain before the Foundation of the World,
    as God reckoned it and so God was able to Justifiably Pardon sinners,
    prior to the cross, etc.
     
    #2 Alan Gross, Mar 26, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Per what Scripture? According to Mark 14:12-16 that day was the 14th and Christ had not yet been crucified!
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I meant to post this in Baptist Theology and Bible Study

    @37818

    The Passover Lamb and Jesus was/is the Passover Lamb was killed of the fourteenth between the two evenings and eaten on the fifteenth with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. Jesus died on the fourteenth and was buried just before the feast day of the fifteenth. The removal of leaven was part of the preparation methinks.

    Ex 12:6-8 And ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel shall kill it between the two evenings. And they shall take of the blood, and put it on the two door-posts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; with bitter herbs shall they eat it.

    Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

    The Passover, that is the death of Jesus Christ, begins the fulfillment of the Feast's of the LORD. The holy convocations.

    Christ dies
    the unleavened of people begin
    the first-fruit of the Spirit is poured out

    ect
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I really wanted this post to be about the iniquity of us all, our sins he bore in his body.

    Are our sins still In his body?

    He bore them, "in," his body on the 14th. What about the days that followed? Was Jesus a man?

    Does Numbers 19:11,12 apply to Jesus bearing our sins in his body?
    Consider Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

    Glorified not himself? Who glorified him? How? When? Would washing of regeneration, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee, have glorified him?

    Speaking of Jesus and glorification.

    John 7:37-39 And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink; he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;' and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
    1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Is the following Verse relative to John 7:39? Acts 2:33 YLT at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;

    Did Jesus have to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit before the Holy Spirit could be poured out? Before John 7:38,39 could begun to take place? Did Jesus need to be renewed of Holy Spirit?

    Washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit.

    Which, he poured out abundantly.

    After receiving of the Father?
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    On this day that we are saying is the 14th, in Mark 14: 12-16,
    the verse directly after vs 16;
    16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city,
    and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover,

    is The Last Supper,
    (Psalm 41:1-13; Matthew 26:17-25; Luke 22:7-13; John 13:18-30)

    17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

    18 And as they sat and did eat...

    with this Lord's Supper just being later in that same evening of the 14th.

    The very beginning of the 14th;

    12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

    13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

    14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

    15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared:
    there make ready for us.

    16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city,
    and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

    Later in the evening on the 14th;

    17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

    18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said,...

    Then is the Lord's Supper from Matthew 26, on the 14th
    "when the even was come";
    After the Lord's Supper, Judas betrays Jesus at Gethsemane,
    in the first part of the night on the 14th;


    Then, during the night of the 14th
    there is first trial, before daylight; on the 14th
    ;

    Then, in the morning daybreak of the 14th
    ;
    So, it is the 14th during the daytime, at noon, Jesus is crucified;
    Then, still on this Preparation Day, on the 14th,
    before the Annual Sabbath High Day on Thursday, Nison 15;

    Joseph of Arimathea gets Jesus' body from Pilate;
    And Jesus was buried before the end of the Day,
    on the 14th, b
    efore 6:00 pm.
    Not yet.

    Jesus was crucified at noon in the daytime
    of what was still the 14th, though.

    Mark 14:12-16 was the beginning of Nison 14,
    of the Jewish way of reckoning days, as you know,
    (which began when Tuesday Nison 13 was over, after 6:00 pm.)

    Then, all through the evening, night, and morning, of the 14th,
    there were the events leading up to Jesus being crucified at noon,
    that all still happened, on the 14th.
     
    #6 Alan Gross, Mar 26, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You can't have the 14th two days in a row. And the Passover is eaten the evening of the 15th. Which places the crucifixion the day of the 15th.
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You know the Jews reckoned their days of the week,
    to be from 6:00 pm on one day, until 6:00 pm the following day,
    to make what consists of each single 24 hour day, do....
    what is the problem?

    By who?, in particular?

    Everyone, without exception?

    The 15th was the First Official Day of Unleavened Bread, as you know,
    which was a Holy Convocation to the Lord, as you know.
    which means it was a special Sabbath in which no work was to be done,
    so where are you at with that?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So is it, you do believe what Mark 14:12 being cited refers to the actual day of the 14th of Nisan matters?
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Yes it was the 14th.

    And the first day of the unleavened food, when they were killing the passover, his disciples say to him, 'Where wilt thou, that, having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?'

    What needed to be done, prepared, [in order that] the passover could be eaten after it was killed the following afternoon?


    From Torah family come grow with us.

    Ex. 12:19 For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses.

    As a family, we like to start a few days early with removing all leavened dough/bread from our home. Meaning, we start eating it up. We have a little fun right before our Passover meal. Anything left not eaten is brought together and burned up in a small fire. Besides getting leaven 5 out of our home, we are instructed to eat unleavened bread the full week.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @percho,
    Per Exodus 12:18.
    The 7 days unleavened bread were, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20.
    But the 7 days of the feast were, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. Now see Deuteronomy 16:8. So 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. Being 6 days.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. See Post #11.
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "The feast of Passover was by no means uniformly defined, so some in the colloquial language already called the 13th Nisan also belonging to the Passover, because some splinter groups already began on the 13th Nisan with the slaughter, others counted from the 14th Nisan, because on this day the lamb had to be slaughtered.

    "But the first Passover feast day (High Sabbath) for all was, of course, only the 15th of Nisan, because it was the first day of Unleavened Bread, when no leaven was to be eaten. From the 13th of Nisan to the 14th of Nisan, the Israelites had to remove the leaven, but before sunset, because after sunset the High Sabbath (15th of Nisan) began.

    "The real Passover lamb was slaughtered on the 14th of Nisan. However, some scholars point out that because of the immense amount of sheep, the slaughtering began on the 13th of Nisan for those living outside Jerusalem and on the 14th of Nisan for most others.

    "This view is also held by PICKL: "Because of the large number of sacrifices and because of the long journeys of the Disaspora Jews and the Galileans, however, the practice had become established of slaughtering Passover lambs in some cases as early as the evening of Nisan 13 and bringing the Passover meal forward a day. The synoptic account reflects such an early meal on the 13th of Nisan" (cf. PICKL, Messiaskönig 1939, pp. 250-251. In: Guido Baltes Hebräisches Evangelium und Synoptische Überlieferung, 2011.

    "But the historian Flavius Josephus does not write that slaughtering already took place on the 13th of Nisan, but he reports that it was on this 14th of Nisan, as it was prescribed in the Torah.

    "He mentions an unimaginable 255,600 sacrificial animals slaughtered on the 14th of Nisan from the 9th hour to the 11th hour (Jewish War 6, chapter 9, 423-425). In terms of the 2 hours of slaughter (9th-11th hour; 3-5 p.m.), it would mean that 2,130 lambs should have been killed per minute. The Bible does not say that the Passover lambs were slaughtered as early as Nisan 13. Neither does it say that Jesus ate a Passover lamb.

    "Therefore, most Christians assume that the Last Supper at the beginning of the 14th Nisan (night phase) must have been a normal meal that became a new memorial meal. The evangelist John describes this last night of Jesus in great detail. It was the last common evening before the execution of Jesus, therefore it became the special memory meal. According to this, Jesus would not have eaten the Passover lamb because He himself was "slaughtered" as the Passover lamb on the 14th of Nisan.

    "This would also coincide with various extra-biblical sources which report that Jesus did NOT eat the Passover lamb (e.g. Chronicon Paschale, Hippolytus, etc.). Since on Tuesday evening from 6 p.m. the Passover preparation day (14th Nisan) began, the designation "Passover meal" is correct, because it was on the same calendar day in which in the evening (more precisely "between the evenings" (see explanation) the Passover lamb was slaughtered.

    "In other words, a Passover meal is a meal that takes place at the time of Passover, with no specific day or food specified. In common speech, this usually refers to the Passover meal at the end of the 14th and beginning of the 15th of Nisan, at which the Passover lamb was eaten. But on any day (or evening) during the one-week Passover feast, there could be a communal meal at which the family met. If this meal took place on an evening, then for the Israelites it was an evening meal.

    "But we Christians, when we use the word "Last Supper" or "Lord's Supper", mean a very special meal on a very specific evening, namely the LAST gathering of the disciples with their Lord before His execution. Since all biblical days begin after sunset, this was of course after the 13th of Nisan, that is, after sunset (from 6 pm a new calendar day began, see definition day) at the beginning of the 14th of Nisan. On the same calendar day, Jesus was crucified at 3 pm.

    "A Passover lamb is a lamb eaten at the time of the Passover feast. The Passover began with the separation of the lamb already on the 10th of Nisan, but this very special and unique lamb was not allowed to be slaughtered until the 14th of Nisan (at 3pm)..."

    "However, it would in no way be the pure and young lamb that was already sorted out on the 10th of Nisan and had to be kept for 4 days and was only allowed to be slaughtered for the Passover feast on the 14th of Nisan from 3 pm. Only the blood of this specific lamb brought salvation.

    "All this was done to commemorate the Exodus from Egypt, in which the lamb slaughtered at 3 p.m. on the 14th of Nisan (see "between the evenings") was quickly eaten, the blood of which saved the people of Israel.

    "On the night of the 15th of Nisan, the liberation of the people and the exodus from Egypt took place, so this day is the first High Sabbath of the year and not the day before, which is only a preparation day."

    from: 3. The preparation day was not a Friday
    but a Wednesday.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    What I am calling "the First Official Day of Unleavened Bread",
    you refer to as "the 7 days of the feast were, 15,..."

    The first day of each of the three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was "a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Lev. 23:7, 24, 35. Cp. Ex. 12:16.

    "That Sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly sabbath.

    It was called by the Jews Yom tov ( = Good day), and this is the greeting on that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.

    This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.

    I grant that;

    1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.

    2.
    The "first day of the feast" was on the 15th day of Nisan.

    3. The 15th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset
    on what we would still be calling the 14th.
    ...


    The first day of Unleavened Bread
    are in the words in Mark 14:12 and Luke 22:7
    and refer to "the first day of unleavened bread",
    which was the 14th day of Nisan, and therefore "the preparation day".

    That is why the Lord goes on to tell the two disciples to go
    and "make preparation for the Passover."

    Then, we have;
    What I called, "the First Official Day of Unleavened Bread",
    as being what you refer to as "the 7 days of the feast were, 15,..."

    THE FIRST DAY OF THE FEAST" - "THE HIGH DAY" (Yom tov) -
    is THE 15th DAY OF NISAN.
    (Our Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset.)
     
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