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Questions for KJV critics

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Steve K., Jan 23, 2003.

  1. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    For the very same reason that a quote from Zechariah is attributed to Jeremiah in Matthew 27:9 in MV's and also the KJV.

    The same reason Pastor Larry gave.
     
  2. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    KING JAMES AV 1611 said:

    Proof? I have given documented proof that the people behind the texts used for MV's were involved in Satanic practices,Mariolatry,humanism ,new age,sodomy etc..

    Yes, and it has been refuted every time.
     
  3. Harald

    Harald New Member

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    I will answer one of the questions of the topic starter, and it should collapse the whole KJV-infallible argument.

    >>5. Remembering that the Holy Spirit is the greatest Teacher (John 16:12-15; I John 2:27), who taught you that the King James Bible was not infallible, the Holy Spirit or man? >>

    The Holy Spirit who inspired the New Testament shows that the KJV is not infallible nor inerrant. The word of God, the Holy Bible, teaches such glorious attributes of God Almighty as Holiness, Righteousness, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Omniscience etc.

    The KJV/AV 1611 teaches Foolishness as one of God's attributes, cp. 1Cor. 1:25 in the KJV 1611 authorized by an ungodly king and translated by Anglican pedobaptisers:

    "Because the FOOLISHNESS of God is wiser than men; and the WEAKNESS of God is stronger than men" (emphasis Harald's)

    Oops, it seems the KJV 1611 teaches Weakness also as one of God's attributes. It puts one wondering what "God" those Anglicans were referring to. There you have it, outright blasphemy of God the Lord in black and white, and on the pages of the "infallible" KJV 1611, the "Final Authority". And you KJV Onlyers don't come saying the meaning is some other than WHAT STANDS WRITTEN in clear WORDS.

    Harald
     
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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  5. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    JYD said:

    and why are the MV's making a sinner out of Jesus by removing"without a cause from Matt 5:22??

    And why is the KJV making a sinner out of God by having him call someone "Thou fool" in Luke 2:20?

     
  6. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    Not one of the FACTS I listed have been refuted as you claim.You have voiced your ignorance and contempt for the BIBLE.I said when I came to this board and read discussions that all of the people promoting MV's have an authority problem. All of your posts just prove the point.Look around you boys! This world is getting better by the day!WRONG! When this country began to turn their back on God's word we started down a path to the hog pen and we are picking up speed by the day.There is no bringing it back now we will have to ride it out til the Lord returns.The King James Bible is the word of God.When these mv's came out their claim was to make the bible easier to understand.Now they claim to be superior.Just like the Devil. "I will ascend" By the way did you know that the motto for the city that the niv came from is I will? Did you know it was in 1966 and that the zip code for that city is 60606? Probably nothing to it.
     
  7. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Boy, this previous post adds new diminisions to the extreme measures the KJVonlyist will go to in order to spread their false doctrine.
     
  8. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    You provided quotes from books you had read by KJVO authors. Those quotes were used to imply that someone associated with MV's said something. These quotes included elipsis (...) meaning that words had been dropped out. The only honest and proper use of elipsis is when the meaning is not changed. The full quotes were later provided by Brian T and perhaps others. The full quotes demonstrated clearly that the authors you quoted were being deceptive. That is called being refuted.
    Please... please, cite this ignorance and prove your point. Otherwise, this is a baseless attack... and a lie.
    This is a flagrant lie. Period.
    That's a matter of perspective. Historical facts have authority. Scriptural facts have greater authority. God has supreme authority. KJVOnlyism draws none of its support from these authorities.

    So yes, from the KJVO stand point, I have an authority problem... I do not accept Riplinger, Gipp, Marrs, Ruckman, Chick, Hyles, Waite, etc. and maybe most importantly YOUR FEELINGS ON THE MATTER as authoritative. It has been proven that you and these authors are willing to use lies and distortion to support your false doctrine.
    I certainly hope so.
    Remarkable. Someone who believes Riplinger was inspired directly by God and accepts her teaching authority in direct violation of scripture and who accepts an immoral man like Ruckman as a hero is now going to lecture on the departure from God's Word.
    My how willing you are to limit the will of God.
    One pearl of truth in an ocean of non-sense.
    ... and millions have used them to walk in the spirit and bear the spiritual fruits of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Great numbers have been saved using MV's. Those who read, believe, and live by MV's are no less godly than the best KJVO you know.
    Now this... is not remarkable. You deify the KJV and demonize the MV's. Idolatry is what it is though.
    Well if it is from the 60606 zip code, it is Chicago. Chicago's motto is Urbs in Horto, "city in a garden"-
    http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/chimotto.html
    You've believed a lie again without checking it out for yourself.
    Lied to again. http://www.gospelcom.net/ibs/niv/background.php
    False. The NIV originated in Palos Heights, IL 60463. I have been unable to determine that they even have an official motto. If so, it isn't on their seal.

    Congratulations Steve, you made a trifecta.
     
  9. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    KING JAMES AV 1611 said:

    By the way did you know that the motto for the city that the niv came from is I will? Did you know it was in 1966 and that the zip code for that city is 60606? Probably nothing to it.

    Then why even bring it up?

    The above tripe was such blatant nonsense that even Gail the Ripper had a crisis of conscience and deleted it from the second edition of NABV.
     
  10. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    You guys can't win.
    Dr. Mollenkott, one of the literary consultants for the NIV translating committee, is a professed homosexual. This is verified by her own words in an interview in the Episcopal publication, Witness (June, 1991, pages 20-23). The interviewer, Sue Pierce, asked the question, "Why was it important to both of you to come out as lesbians?" Dr. Mollenkott's reply was, "My lesbianism has always been a part of me. I tried to kill myself in my teens because they told me I'd never be healed, that God had no use for people like me. I couldn't stand the thought of living a life that was useless and offensive to God. I tried to be heterosexual. I married myself off. But what I did ultimately realize was that God created me as I was, and that this is where life was meaningful."

    Realizing Dr. Mollenkott's moral direction, one could expect her views to strongly affect the outcome of the NIV translation, and it does, as can be seen in the treatment of the sin of Sodom from which the term "sodomy" is derived. This word, generally used for homosexual behavior, is defined in Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary as "copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal." As can be seen, sodomy implies more than homosexual behavior, but Dr. Mollenkott was not interested in the human-beast relationship, she was only concerned about justifying the same sex relationship of sodomy.

    In her book, Is The Homosexual My Neighbor?, Dr. Mollenkott explains fully why she thinks the homosexual got bad press in the Bible. She presents all kinds of fanciful notions that the Old Testament Holiness Codes which forbid sodomy do not apply to the New Testament church. She explains in detail that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality as a loving relationship between two consenting adults. Therefore, she concludes, it has to be OK. Where Paul mentions homosexuality, she again says that it only applies to promiscuous homosexuality. The NIV clearly reflects her views.

    The following readings compare the KJB and the NIV in several areas where sodomy or homosexual behavior is mentioned. Going over these, it is easy to see that sodomy was never considered as a viable concept in the NIV and homosexuality was presented from Dr. Mollenkott's viewpoint. The comments of Dr. Mollenkott are from her book, Is The Homosexual My Neighbor? (abbreviated as ITHMN)

    Genesis 19:5 - The sin of Sodom
    KJB - And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, where are the men which came into thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

    NIV - They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out so that we can have sex with them."

    Mollenkott, ITHMN, Page 57 - "... the Sodom story seems to be focusing on two specific evils: (1) violent gang rape and (2) inhospitality to the stranger."

    Leviticus 18:22 - Sodomy
    KJB - Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.

    NIV - Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman: that is detestable.

    (Author's note: There is quite a degree of difference between the meaning of the words, abomination and detestable.)

    Leviticus 20:13 - Sodomy
    KJB - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.

    NIV - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them has done what is detestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.

    Mollenkott, ITHMN, Pages 110 through 121 - "Dr. Mollenkott argues that this is part of the ceremonial laws, and as such, are to be disregarded by the Christian. She places this act on the same level as wearing clothes of two different materials."

    Deuteronomy 23:17 - Sodomite
    KJB - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    NIV - No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute.

    Judges 19:22 - Sodomy
    KJB - Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

    NIV - While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him."

    Mollenkott, ITHMN, Page 57 - "Violence - forcing sexual activity upon another - is the real point to this story."

    I Kings 14:24 - Sodomites
    KJB - And there were sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel.

    NIV - There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites.

    I Kings 15:12 - Sodomites
    KJB - And he took away the sodomites out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

    NIV - He expelled all the shrine prostitutes from the land and got rid of the idols his fathers had made.

    I Kings 22:46 - Sodomites
    KJB - And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

    NIV - He rid the land of the rest of the shrine prostitutes who remained there even after the reign of his father Asa.

    II Kings 23:7 - Sodomites
    KJB - And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

    NIV - He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the Lord and where women did weaving for Asherah.

    Mollenkott, ITHMN, Page 59 & 60 - "Most scholars agree that in the fertility religions of Israel's neighbors, male cult prostitutes were employed for homosexual acts. The people who loved and served the God of Israel were strictly forbidden to have anything to do with such idolatry, and the Jewish men were commanded to never serve as temple prostitutes."

    (Author's note: Clearly a male could be a shrine prostitute and not be a homosexual, but according to the dictionary a Sodomite is a homosexual.)
     
  11. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    Come on guys tell the truth.I give you documented facts and you don't believe it.Little wonder that you question scripture.I have plenty more info on mv's and your giving me opportunity to use it.Thanks!
     
  12. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Pretty lame. The NIV verses seem just as strong as the KJV, and plainer in places. The only thing he has added is the "interpretations" of the stylist (not translator) which seem to have no bearing on the translation.

    Please, sir, may I have another ad hominem attack?
     
  13. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    Not lame for the people I associate with,Thank God! More? why sure. Feast on this;6. As a final note, we'd like to point out how the NKJV is very inconsistent in it's attempt to update the language of the KJV. The preface to the NKJV states that previous "revisions" of the KJV have "sought to keep abreast of changes in English speech", and also that they too are taking a "further step toward this objective". However, when taking a closer look at the language of the NKJV, we find that oftentimes they are stepping BACKWARDS! Please note a few examples of how well the NKJV has "kept abreast of the changes in the English language":


    SCRIPTURE KJV NKJV

    Ezra 31:4 little rivers- rivulets
    Psalms 43:1 Judge -Vindicate
    Psalms 139:43 thoughts- anxieties
    Isaiah 28:1 fat- verdant
    Amos 5:21 smell- savor
    Matthew 26:7 box -flask
    Luke 8:31 the deep -the abyss
    John 10:41 did -performed
    Luke 19:11-27 pounds -minas
    John 19:9 judgement hall -Praetorium
    Acts 1:8 bowels- entrails
    Acts 18:12 deputy -proconsul
    Acts 21:38 uproar -insurrection
    Acts 27:30 boat -skiff
    Hebrews 12:8 bastard -illegitimate


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    They must be folks who tickle your ears, then.
     
  15. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    For your information;
    2. There's nothing "new" about the NKJV logo. It is a "666" symbol of the pagan trinity which was used in the ancient Egyptian mysteries. It was also used by satanist Aleister Crowley around the turn of this century. The symbol can be seen on the New King James Bible, on certain rock albums (like Led Zepplin's), or you can see it on the cover of such New Age books as The Aquarian Conspiracy. (See Riplinger's tract on the NKJV.)

    3. It is estimated that the NKJV makes over 100,000 translation changes, which comes to over eighty changes per page and about three changes per verse! A great number of these changes bring the NKJV in line with the readings of such Alexandrian perversions as the NIV and the RSV. Where changes are not made in the text, subtle footnotes often give credence to the Westcott and Hort Greek Text.

    4. While passing off as being true to the Textus Receptus, the NKJV IGNORES the Receptus over 1,200 times.

    5. In the NKJV, there are 22 omissions of "hell", 23 omissions of "blood", 44 omissions of "repent", 50 omissions of "heaven", 51 omissions of "God", and 66 omissions of "Lord". The terms "devils", "damnation", "JEHOVAH", and "new testament" are completely omitted.
     
  16. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Alas, there is nothing new under the sun -- including the half-baked, semi-literate, nonresearched, gullible rantings of some people on this board. Every issue you've brought up has been dealt with.
     
  17. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    Yes and proven to be fact! Need some more?
    Who is Lucifer?
    If we look in the NIV, we will never know anything about Lucifer for this term for Satan does not appear on its pages. The only reference to the name of the one who led the revolt against God is found in the King James Bible (KJB) in Isaiah 14:12. The referenced Scripture, and the verses following, have always been identified with the fall of Satan, and the names Lucifer and Satan have become synonymous in the English speaking world. The Isaiah Chapter 14 event is probably the same as the one Jesus described in Luke 10:18 where He said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
     
  18. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    No facts, just gas. All hashed out before, ad nauseum.

    For what it's worth -- and for you it means nothing -- I will post the NET Bible notes on the passage for the umpteenth time.

    Have a nice life.
     
  19. Steve K.

    Steve K. Guest

    That's so typical of a person with no answers.
    Critics of the KJV have a nasty habit of pointing out what they believe to be errors, contradictions, and mistranslations in the Authorized Version. The sad fact is that they usually point these things out to young men and women in Christian colleges who do not know any better. Many young Christians, including young preachers, are having their faith in God's word destroyed by the very people they look to for spiritual guidance!

    These so-called "errors" that are presented by such infidels have been explained and written about so many times that it's a shame to even have to mention it again. There isn't enough space in a booklet of this size to embark upon a lengthy rebuttle of such claims. Besides, it has already been done quite well by others. Nevertheless, for the sake of showing the reader the nature of the so-called "errors" in the AV, we will take the time to briefly deal with just a few:

    1. According to the critics, the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a mistranslation, because the Greek word is"pascha," and it is translated "passover" twenty-eight times in the New Testament, and it should be translated likewise in Acts 12:4.

    This is what happens when a man is so hung up on "the Greek" that he can't read plain English. It should NOT be translated "passover" because the Passover had already passed. The "days of unleavened bread" had already begun (vs. 3), which means the Passover was over (Num. 28:16-18; Exo. 12:13-18). The Passover was always the fourteenth day of the first month, while the days of unleavened bread ran from the fifteenth through the twenty-first. Herod could not have been waiting for the Passover. Besides, why would a Gentile king like Herod be concerned about a Jewish feast day? "Easter" is from the pagan "Ishtar", the goddess that the pagans worshipped--Rome included. Herod wanted to wait until his pagan holiday was over before bringing Peter out to the people.
     
  20. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Read edited post above.
     
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