R.C. Sproul On Regeneration In Dispensationalism and The Definition of This Theology

Glad to have you here Bernard Pyron.

My dispensational friend always says about this:

"In Ephesians 2: 15 Paul says that of the two, Jews and Gentiles, the blood of Christ creates One New Man, so making peace between the two, Jews and Gentiles."

is that the Jews Paul is talking about here are New Testament Jews who had experienced "the new birth" in the same way the Gentiles had.

 

Nice verses but please explain to me how that answers only NT time Jewish believers are included in the body of Christ.

 

They believe Israel is the earthly people, and the Church is the heavenly people.

 

Thank you.

 

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond
Church And Israel

Excellent informative and thought provoking post Benard, and welcome to the BB.

The scriptural motif is clear. We're children of Zion because we're supernaturally born from above into it:

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit. Jn 3

13 who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1

We're doers of the law because the law has been supernaturally written upon our hearts:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

We're true Jews because of the supernatural circumcision not made with hands:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

Our faith in Christ is a fruit of our spiritual birth from above, not the other way around.

 

...and you say that with such confidence. Christ had a people from both the Jews and the Gentiles prior to the cross:

1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ. 1 Cor 10​

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

26 even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,
27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 1

 

I was taught that at first also.

 

The clash between Lordship Salvation and free grace!

 

Through the first 13 chapters of Acts the Holy Spirit through the testimony of His witnesses consistently convicts the Jews of the judicial murder of Christ:

Acts 2:
…. they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance…Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth… ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay…God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Acts 2:4,22,23,36

Acts 3:
…Peter… answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel… his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him… ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life… whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:12-15

Acts 4:
…Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders… be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified… Acts 4:8,10

Acts 5:
… they set them before the council…. ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us…. Peter and the apostles answered and said… The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree… we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit Acts 5:27,28,29,30,32

Acts 6 & 7:
…there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers; Acts 6:9,10; Acts 7:51,52

Acts 10:
…we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree…. Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest, not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. Acts 10: 39-42

Acts 13:
…Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken…they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people. Acts 13:16,27-31

 

Is Zion feminine does she give birth to her children?

 

Psalms 87

 

! Peter 2:6-8 Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: 'Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;' to you, then, who are believing is the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner, and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence -- who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, -- to which also they were set;

Acts 3:10,11 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Would it be correct to say that Jesus of Nazareth was the first child Zion birthed?

 

Child of Zion = child of God. It's a metaphor perch.

 

I am dispensational in my beliefs concerning the Bible.

There isn't Old Covenant Israel and New Covenant Church at this time. There is only the Church. The believing Jews at this time are part of the Church, not Old Covenant Israel.

When one exercises faith, he does not enter Israel. He becomes part of the Church. The believing Jew is indeed an Israelite, but he becomes part of the Church. The believing Gentile, doesn't become a Jew or Israelite. He becomes part of the Church, a saved Gentile.

Quantrill

 

You cannot be born-again, be a new creation indwelled by the Holy Spirit and not have change take place in your lifestyle. The statement that Sproul attributes to dispensationalist (or is it his) is heretical.

[2Co 5:17 ESV] 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
[Col 3:10 ESV] 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

Can anyone supply a credible resource to support his accusation?

I identify as a dispensationalist since my rebirth in 1960. I have never, until now, heard such heresy expressed.

In my experience, God, the Holy Spirit, has not to this day, stopped making me aware of my need to make changes in my life to become more like Christ.

Praise God!!