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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC, Aug 11, 2013.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs::wavey::thumbs:an honest post.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    yes of course this is the bottom line 95% of the time:thumbs::thumbs:
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Inspector Javert

    [
    Yes....no one can even conceive of these secret ideas.They are so secret that we never see them posted. In fact anyone who posts any other idea than these unique perspectives....is arrogant and rude. Why do you fail to grasp this IJ????:laugh:
     
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Icon,

    Your posts ring true as to experience with either serving in a Presbyterian or Reformed church. In most of the postings, it is obvious that only books were read about the subject. So is my hunch right, you have actual experience serving in one of the two? By the way, Tom and I are still awaiting your trip through West Kentucky.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think some hold to an anti theology, as as long as its anti cal, anti arm, anti dispy etc...

    So don'r really have a well thought out biblical theology in place, just as long as its against the one don't like!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    see, cals and arms can play nice here!

    just curious, how would you describe the cal viewpoint of salvation?
     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I could be wrong, but I think I was one of the earlier posters who adopted the term Non-Cal to describe those who were not Calvinist.

    Yep, it's pretty vague, but remember, this is a predominately Baptist forum, most of whom are not Calvinists or Predestinarians, yet would reject the term Arminian. So, in the context of our discussions here, the use of the term "non-Cal" is a way to have a decent conversation. I doubt if anyone here, Baptist or not, will equate "non-Cal" with Islam or Buddha.

    I have also adopted the occasional use of "DoG" (short for Doctrines of Grace). Two reasons: One, I have been looking for another way to describe my soteriology besides Calvinism; and two, it's sort of a light-hearted way to describe myself. When I use the term, just about all of you will know exactly what I mean.

    So far, I have been able to avoid having a non-Cal describe me as a "Dirty DoG" or "Junkyard DoG."
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am in west central oregon right now...Albany Ore.So Kentucky will not happen for awhile.:laugh:

    I have not served in those churches.One of the first study books I read was Berkof's Systematic theology. followed by Matthew Henry,John Murray,William Hendricksen,and others,

    I did not learn that Presbyterians were "evil" yet:laugh:
    I also attended both family conferences,and other bible conferences at Bill Shishko,OPC church for a number of years.

    There were not as many Baptist sources available dealing with God's covenants that were available as there are now.

    Many of the puritans and reformers were also of this point of view.
    It is only my firm view of Particular redemption that has kept me from leaning that way,biblically,

    In other words...when we teach for whom did Jesus die....we know it is the elect, the church. I do not see the NT church as a mixed work,believers and unbelievers. It is only the elect.
    Yes unbelievers come among us .....but they are not really part of the church that Jesus died for.That is why judgement begins at the house of God.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes....It is easier than actually studying out anything. You just dismiss the scriptures, or ridicule anyone who obeys God in studying the bible.
    Real study takes much reading and scriptural meditation.Some notions we first thought made sense need to be set aside when truth comes to town...:thumbsup::wavey:
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Agree with DoG, as I tend to see it along the lines of there being reformed/reformed in calvinistic circles....

    And think manynon cals might well be real arms, but either don't know that theology, or else hate that label!
     
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    This is a little off the subject, but our local church is in search of a pastor. Our former pastor resigned due to his wife's health. There are a handful of people in our church that believe in DoG. Two of them are on the search committee (including Tom). We have never had any arguments to the best of my knowledge over the subject between members.

    However, when it comes to pastors, it is a different story. We had a Calvinist pastor in the mid 70s, really before my time. He was still there when I became a Baptist, but did not know much about him. Then, pastor before last was a strong Calvinist. While a distinct majority of our members are not Calvinists, most do not understand what it stands for. I told a few Calvinist jokes at Bible study Wednesday night, and dare say most did not get them.

    People who had problems with our last Calvinist pastor did not do so because of his theology, but he did not come across well, and seemed angry and some thought arrogant at times. The major problem our search committee has is when they consider a Calvinist candidate, lots in our congregation will link that term to the demeanor of the pastor before last instead of understanding the doctrine. I would without a doubt vote for him if he was otherwise qualified, but believe the majority of the congregation would not, and we would be back to square one.
     
  12. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    From my experiences, always best to have a search committee which represents the theological sentiments of the church (assuming that they have some). Also definitely best for candidates under consideration to be upfront from the very beginning as to their theological positions.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I cant do it SN.....told you before, Im too busy convertin da dang heathen from the clutches of the Roman Catlik Church! Then you got the PCUSA's & the Peckerwood United Methodists ....those partickuler heathens....too dang busy. And aint a Baptist preacher in sight tryin ta help. Fraid your on yer own bub.:laugh:
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    saturneptune

    My first question in thinking about this is.....Why only a handful of people?
    If there have been solid teaching with each Pastor...why has the congregation remained uninformed to the truth of God's word.
    Doctrine is given in scripture to bring about unity-

    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    SN.....I do not know any of these persons on the church role there,only you and Tom online.You have said this here,and at other times-
    It could be for several reasons;
    1] A very mature body of believers ,very actively serving the Lord

    2] A very doctrinally weak core of believers who do not even understand the issues being discussed,and why what they believe matters in how they live out their lives.

    3] Some baptists replace doctrinal teaching and living with obeying a legal or traditional man made set of rules and doctrine and avoid scripture even though they say things like; my bible says, or I am standing on biblical truth, but never know enough scripture to stand on any issue.



    Yes...here it is.....

    The majority does not even understand the issues. Any pastor who comes in and teaches the truth firmly will later be accused of "sneaking in" to promote a "doctrinal position". Of course like here on BB....many will not really grasp these teachings until someone rises up and says

    Hey wait a minute.....someone told me that this teaching is from the puritans...we cannot have that can we???

    If your churches doctrinal statement is like many Baptist churches it would only contain 8 or 9 things that they claim to believe...so the church remains unprotected against error.
    If a liberal comes in and you and Tom question his ideas...you will be found to be unloving:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    While I like to joke around about many things....I usually do not joke much about biblical themes.try not to blur the line at all It is a life and death issue so I try not to blur the line at all.

    Was this man called of God? They might have said it was not his theology, but if the majority did not welcome his teaching or profit from it....the question would be was he called to that assembly??? His frustration might have stemmed from his inability to have success at teaching this group:thumbsup:

    Keep in mind....I am offering only "ballpark ideas" based on what you are describing...

    It is hard for me to think that if bible truth is being preached consistently and without compromise that everyone would just blend together without any disunity.One group or the other usually leaves because they cannot abide with mush instead of meat.....or the word preached with conviction becomes to uncomfortable for the seeker friendly crowd....


    They should look for a godly candidate first,and chances are good his doctrine will align itself quite nicely with the truth.

    Sounds like the next group of SS lessons should be about qualifications for eldership,and any other questions should be addressed in advance.

    The doctrinal stance of the local church needs to be addressed:thumbsup:
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Maybe you should go down there Tony & straighten them out.....:laugh:
     
  16. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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  17. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Tom, you have the right attitude. Others I guess would be willing to split a church wide open by forcing DOG down others throats. Think Dauphin Way Baptist Church in Mobile.
     
  18. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    That was a mess and we have had a few over here.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We are reformed (small "r") Baptists (big "B").

    Love the ARBCA, but not their covenant theology. Most of those pastors (I attend the annual conference) were trained in Presbyterian schools and are slavish faithful to the 1644 or 1689 Baptist Confessions, just as Presbyterians are to the Westminster.

    Love the Founders, a fellowship within the SBC for churches that hold to the "founding" doctrines of that group. Tremendous preaching and missions at their meetings and a more diverse overall theology.

    Love the Midlands Sovereign Grace fellowship, independent Baptist churches that are reformed soteriologically, but fully dispensational in overall theology. I am a regular speaker at their conferences and "my" crowd totally. But just a handful of churches contrasted to the Founders or ARBCA.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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