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Reformed Baptists of Canada

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Jim1999, Jan 7, 2003.

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  1. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    #1 Jim1999, Jan 7, 2003
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the link, Jim - a very nice and thorough site. How much strength do Reformed Baptists have in Canada and when did they first make their appearance?
     
    #2 rlvaughn, Jan 7, 2003
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Robert,

    The first Reformed Baptists were in Canada somewhere around 1834 (please don't quote me,,I will check it out). The organization dwindled away and the majority became independent when the Baptist Convention was formed. In 1927 there was a major division in the Convention and the Regular Baptists were formed under T.T. Shields and the Toronto Baptist Seminary.

    About 44 years ago, a friend of mine from seminary started Trinity Baptist Church in Burlington and sought others for fellowship.....this is the organization the Bath Church belongs to.....Dempster, the founder of the Bath Church was a fellow in seminary with me. At any rate, the organization has grown to about 15 or 20 churches across Canada.

    The churches built on doctrine rather than popularity and one can go to any of the churches and talk about election, decrees and propitiation and everyone knows what you are on about. It is rather refreshing.

    I thought someone here had mentioned that hymnal,,The Gadsby...which is the standard hymnal in these churches and one can even purchase them from this organization.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ January 07, 2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
    #3 Jim1999, Jan 7, 2003
  4. Jacob

    Jacob Member

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    I beleive you are referring to this organization:
    http://www.sgfcanada.com/

    I am very familiar with this group. I am not too fond of them though.

    I believe there's only 10 small churches and at least half are really struggling. They can't seem to grow.

    Jacob.

    [ January 08, 2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Jacob ]
     
    #4 Jacob, Jan 8, 2003
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Jacob,

    There are more churches than are listed on that web site. I know of two more at least not shown there.

    We tend not to debate about the various groups in here, but rather discuss who they are and their peculiarities.

    Cheers, and thanks,

    Jim
     
    #5 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
  6. Jacob

    Jacob Member

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    What are the 2 churches you know to be missing from the list? I know they have recently had 2 or 3 churches leave because of issues and they have already been removed from that list.

    Jacob.

    P.S. I wasn't looking for a debate - but I have modified my post anyways.

    [ January 08, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Jacob ]
     
    #6 Jacob, Jan 8, 2003
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Jacob,

    Thank you. I understand what you were saying. We have just tried to stay away from debate for our fellowship's sake.

    One additional church is Bath Road Baptist in Kingston and I didn't see one Toronto Church in that list,,,,Mt Pleasant.

    I confess I am not aware of what they are doing day by day. There could be changes. I do know a few of the pastors.....The late Bill Payne, who started the Burlington church and I were in seminary together at Toronto Baptist Seminary, as was Dempster who started Bath Road. That is my only connection.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #7 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Jim, I am curious if the use of the name "Reformed Baptist" was common in Canada. I don't recall any historical use of it as a name here in the states. It may have come into common use about 30 or so years ago. This is only in reference to the name - the Sovereign Grace/Calvinistic soteriology was by far the dominant view of early American Baptists.
     
    #8 rlvaughn, Jan 8, 2003
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Robert, I can't recall ever seeing the name "Reformed" used on any Baptist Church in Ontario or Quebec.

    As I mentioned, it was a renewal about 44 years ago when Bill Payne started the work in Burlington. At the time he was alone, but started a Calvinism monthly meeting. They had different speakers on, guess what topic....I will try to find the web site for that monthly meeting.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #9 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I noticed the mention of the Gadsby Hymn Book on the Solo Christo site. I think the Gadsby Hymn Book is probably one of the best overall available to predestinarian Baptists (course, it's available to other Baptists as well; they just might not like it as much ;) ). Do you know if these churches use musical instruments? I saw that they recommended a companion tune book to go with the hymn book. Most of the Baptists in the states that sing acappela do not use a tune book; just use the hymn book and tunes from oral tradition. The 3 Strict Baptist Churches in the United States (but of English origin) use the Gadsby's Hymn Book. I'm not aware of what books the Reformed Baptists in the states use. Since many of them are still connected with the SBC, the Baptist Hymnal might be common. I just don't know.
     
    #10 rlvaughn, Jan 8, 2003
  11. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Robert,

    I am led to believe that they all use instruments,,piano, organ....Bath Road even uses violin...

    By the way, as you were writing, I was on the phone with the wife of the Bath Road Baptist's pastor. Her brother-in-law is one of the pastors in a Reformed Baptist Church......but,,,,shock....Bath Road remains independent, but they have fellowship with those other churches. She also remembers mailing the monthly sermon to a person in Texas......*smile*.....I said, with a broad grin on my mush.....I know the bloke....She was quite impressed.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #11 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Well, I guess I should feel quite special, although I could wish that many people in Texas were receiving the sermons. Though I may not always agree with Spurgeon, I think his sermons are well worth reading. He quotes a large amount of hymns that are often unfamiliar with the average 21st century American Baptist. That alone is worth the trouble, IMO.
     
    #12 rlvaughn, Jan 8, 2003
  13. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Bro. Jim

    Sorry for the absence for a couple of days. Have had some difficulty staying connected for long discussions. Hopefully this one makes it.

    I looked at the web site, and found a few things that I would quibble with, but not much. The operative word being quibble. :D

    One thing that I noticed was the Baptistic ideal rather than pure Baptist (if that made sense). What, if any, connection do you folks have with the more Calvinistic Presbyterian bodies?

    At one time several years ago, I was approached by some Old Light Covanters (not many in the U.S. left) about some cooperation between them and we Primitive Baptists. I knew that would never fly, so didn't pursue it. Just curious if those North of the 49th parallel might see things differently. I stated in another thread, that if for some reason Primitive Baptists ceased to exist, off to the Old Light Covanters I would go (and got blasted for it). There are considerable similarities of theology between those folks and plain=/ultra-/hyper-calvinistic types of Baptists. That said they probably a bit too hyper for those calvinistic Baptists associated with the SBC.

    Jeff.
     
    #13 Jeff Weaver, Jan 8, 2003
  14. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Jeff,

    Good to see you posting. We are quite different in Canada. You would find yourself quite at home in many of our Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches,,,,,,,then some Convention churches are also solid Calvinists too. The Regular Baptists are all solid Calvinists, but only a few churches.

    The two Baptist seminaries in Ontario were very solid in Calvinism. At one time, so were the two main Bible Colleges, Toronto Bible College and the London College of Bible and Missions. McMaster Divinity, the original Baptist "seminary" is a mixed bag, all the way from liberal to conservative in theology. I can't speak for McMaster to-day.

    There are some who would follow the Presbyterian Calvinism (covenant theology) excluding the relationship between circumcision and infant baptism. Most of us are Baptistic Calvinists relating to the various covenants; Abrahamic, Davidic etc.

    Most of us older fellows were schooled using A.H. Strong's Systematic Theology with Hodge on the side as a supplement.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #14 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
  15. Jacob

    Jacob Member

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    Mount Pleasant Road Baptist in Toronto although reformed, has chosen not become a member of the Sovereign Grace Fellowship - they are a Fellowship Baptist church only. My brother did a student internship at Mount Pleasant.

    It might be useful to know that the Sovereign Grace is more of a loose knit group. A few of the churches have dual membership in the both the Sovereign Grace and the Fellowship.

    Jacob.
     
    #15 Jacob, Jan 8, 2003
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Jacob,,,Thank you for that. That could explain why the membership list varies so much from place to place.

    By the way, there is a private message for you.

    Mt. Pleasant has a long history with the Fellowship from its inception in 1953.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #16 Jim1999, Jan 8, 2003
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