Regeneration and justification

Skypair, I'm a calvinist.

 

So I'll pray for you.

(Just couldn't pass on another all too easy opening.) :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

Ed, I got to you remember that you're on BB. :laugh:

 

You speak cryptically TCG.

 

Rippon,

It should be: "I got to remember that you're on BB."

 

Huh? Doesn't the word persuaded mean that the "influence" succeeded? The denotation of persuade is not an attempt, but rather indicates the successful effect of an action.

Here's persuade from dictionary.com:

If the object does not react according to the intent of the action of the subject, the object is not persuaded. Felix said "almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." By definition, if Felix were persuaded, he would then be a Christian.

Her action of attending is in the present active middle or passive deponent, indicating that, although the action is being performed by her, it is also being done to her. It is also effectual of the opening of her heart.

No matter how you slice it, I don't see how this verse can show that the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, was doing anything in a mere attempt with the possibility of failure to get her to respond affirmatively to Paul's message.

 

Ares Man, just a suggestion on the Greek προσεχειν. I think it's actually a present active infinitive.

 

Well, I did look it up here. An infinitive would definitely still prove my point because it would yet function as an adverb for διηνοιξεν, where διηνοιξεν is the cause and προσεχειν is the effect.

 

Agreed -- which is why I used the term "persuasion." Persuasion doesn't work all the time.

I'm gonna leave the "linguistic parsing" to you, man. My experience is that no word stands alone but is used in a context. The contextual comparison you seem to be making is to Rev 3:20 EXCEPT the Spirit of Christ both knocks AND OPENS the door and lets Himself in. Such an argument has no merit scripturally.

Then look to Rom 1:19-21. There we see God showing man His eternal power and godhead in a similar effort as the Spirit does in trying to "open" the heart.

And not inconsequential to the discussion -- what is the "heart," IYO? What is the Holy Spirit and God trying to "open." I know you have heard the phrase before so "spit it out." :laugh: They are trying to "open your MIND" to a consideration of God! And as we both know, just having a knowledge of God does NOT save. He's got to be on the "throne" of your life in your SOUL and YOU must put Him there in place of SELF.

So do you see where you are going with this Lydia thing? The Holy Spirit opens her mind and "effectually" gives her a knowledge of God but so what? I am convinced that, for most Calvinists, that's it -- "head knowledge" = "election" even though the SOUL is left untouched by the Spirit and by their own spirit and is still "dead" because of sin. It's like the demons in Jas 2:19 -- they believe and tremble but, in their case, they can't do anything about it. Sadly, most Calvies are taught by their theology that they can't (choose God because it is He Who chooses) or shouldn't (that'd be "easy believism") do anything about it.

Now many Calvies (everyone here, I'm sure ) later come to the realization that their belief isn't really "faith" -- "proven" because it's without "substance" or "evidence" (Heb 11:1) -- and they decide to repent from their own wisdom and ways to God in a simple prayer of commitment through Christ. Then they are "regenerated" receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling. Some are even baptized and/or make a "good profession before many witnesses" as Timothy did (1Tim 6:12) thus "confessing with their mouths" what they "believed in their hearts," Rom 10:9-10 (and not professing the Calvinist gospel of "monergistic election," passive on our parts). It's just common obedience to do these things.

I know. Ten guys are gonna come out of the woodwork and claim again that I don't understand "black ink on white paper" what has been written and said about Calvinism or its terminology. Ah, well.

skypair