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Featured Reina Valera 1602 vs KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Anon1379, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    I was listening to KJVO guy the other day and he made the comment that the Reina Valera is the perfect Bible for the Spanish speaking people and matches perfectly with the KJV. Of course with KJVO they make retarded statements all the time. Obviously the KJV does match perfectly with the Reina Valera as he claims simply because of language differences. However I don't read Spanish and therefore cannot prove him wrong. Is there anybody here that speaks both and can compare the two and point out some obvious differences in between the two?

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  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I’m not a Spanish speaker...
    But you’ve stumbled into a controversy along the same lines as the KJV Only myth, only in Spanish.

    The goal of translating Scripture is for it to align itself with the original source, not another translation.

    The Spanish version of the contentious doctrine is a bit more complicated owing to the fact that they support their versional bias using KJV Only arguments, and compare their version to it.

    Rob
     
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  3. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    You said it!
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Check Mark 1:2 in Reina-Valera against the KJV. As I recall, the R-V reads "in Isaiah the prophet" while the KJV reads "in the prophets" (you don't have to be able to read Spanish to see this difference).
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Should translate into Spanish from the original languages texts, not the Kjv version!
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The KJVO world is quite divided on this issue. There are at least two efforts by KJVO translators to produce a KJV equivalent in Spanish. The most popular one is called the Reina Valera Gomez because of the translator, Humberto Gomez.

    The translator of a different "Spanish KJV" (an impossibility, actually) decided to translate "Holy Ghost" in the KJV literally, and used the Spanish word fantasma, which means a human ghost and must never be applied to the Holy Spirit.
     
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  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Which Reina Valera? The original of 1769? Or the 1909? Or the 1960?

    I think you mean "does not match."
     
  8. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    Yes sorry, I'll edit my post to fix that. And he didn't specify. I'd imagine the earliest one.
     
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  9. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    Marcos 1:2 Como está escrito en Isaías el profeta: He aquí yo envío á mi mensajero delante de tu faz, Que apareje tu camino delante de ti.

    Mark 1:2 (KJV) As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

    You right, a clear visible difference. Thanks!!

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  10. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    I also believe he translated corn in the kjv as maize. When in 1611 corn simply meant grain. Corn as we know it today is American Indian invention. The disciples and Jesus as well Egypt did not have corn but grain.

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  11. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    What "original source" or "original languages" are being referred to?
     
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  12. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    I was looking in France at a flour called farine de blé. I looked that up in a French / English dictionary. It gave English as corn and American as wheat.
     
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  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The 1602 Valera Spanish Bible has “almendro,” which would be Spanish for almond, at Genesis 30:37.

    At Leviticus 11:19, the 1569 Spanish Bible and 1602 Spanish Valera have “abovilla” [old spelling for abubilla that is said to refer to the “hoopoe”].

    At Leviticus 11:30, the 1569 and 1602 Spanish Bibles have "erizo" [hedgehog, porcupine].

    Most of the translations on the KJV-only view’s line of good Bibles differ from the KJV at Leviticus 23:40. Wycliffe’s has “fruits of the fairest tree” while the 1535 Coverdale’s has “goodly fruitful trees.” Tyndale’s, 1537 Matthew’s, and 1540 Great Bibles have “the fruits of goodly trees” while the Geneva and Bishops’ Bibles have “the fruit of goodly trees.” On the other hand, the 1611 KJV has “the boughs of goodly trees” with a marginal note for boughs: “Heb. fruit.” The 1534 Luther’s German Bible has frucht (“fruit”) in agreement with the pre-1611 English Bibles. Likewise, the 1569 Spanish Reina and 1602 Spanish Valera have fruto [“fruit”] at this verse.

    Variation is again found in the Bibles on the KJV-only pure line of Bibles at Job 30:29. Wycliffe’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Geneva, and Bishops’ Bibles all have “ostriches” while the KJV has “owls.” William Tyndale had translated the same Hebrew as “ostrich” at Leviticus 11:16. The 1569 Spanish Bible and 1602 Spanish Valera Bible translated this Hebrew word as “abestruz” [old spelling for avestruz that is said to refer to the ostrich] at Leviticus 11:16. The 1569 and 1602 Spanish Bibles have this same Spanish word for ostrich at Job 30:29. Luther’s 1534 German Bible on the good line of Bibles has the German word for ostriches at Job 30:29. The 1611 KJV edition did have a marginal note at Job 30:29: “Or, ostriches.”

    The variations in the KJV-only view’s line of good Bibles at Isaiah 18:4 could be considered. The 1540 Great and 1568 Bishops’ rendered a phrase as “heat after the rain” while the 1560 Geneva has “heat drying up the rain.” The 1611 KJV has “heat upon herbs” with a marginal note “Or, after rain.” The Syriac Peshitta is on the KJV-only good line, and Lamsa’s English translation of it has “heat upon the river.” In agreement with some of the pre-1611 English Bibles, Luther’s 1534 German Bible has Regen [rain], and the 1602 Spanish Valera has lluvia [rain]. Haak’s English translation of the 1637 Dutch Bible also has “rain.“ The old commentary of Abraham Ibn Ezra as translated by Michael Friedlander has “after rain” at Isaiah 18:4 (p. 86). John Gill indicated that David Kimchi agreed with Ibn Ezra in supporting “after rain.“
     
    #13 Logos1560, Feb 2, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  14. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    Thanks mate! Do you happen to speak spanish

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  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I took two years of Spanish in high school many years ago. I make use of Spanish-English dictionaries in examining the 1569 Spanish Bible reprint and 1602 Spanish Valera reprint that I have.
     
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  16. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    • The French Ostervald Bible which is based on Olivetan's original French Bible of 1533 has verte de peuplier, d'amandier et de platane. Green Poplar, Almond and Plane tree.
    The later Louis Segond Bible has the same.
     
    #16 David Kent, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Hebrew and Greek texts.
     
  18. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    There is a third effort by KJV-only advocates to produce a KJV equivalent in Spanish.

    In his book entitled History and Truth about the Gomez Spanish Bible, Robert Breaker, who is said to be a graduate of Ruckman's school, is very critical of the Gomez Spanish Bible. Breaker suggested that Gomez, whom he says did not known Hebrew nor Greek, stated with the 1960 Spanish Bible and tried to revise it to match the KJV.

    KJV-only advocate Robert Breaker advocates a different Spanish Bible that is called the 1602 Valera Purified. It is said to begin with the 1602 Valera Bible, which is said to have been revised to match the Textus Receptus and the KJV.
     
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  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The Trinitarian Bible Society is producing a revision of the 1602 Reina Valera. The N.T., Psalms and Proverbs has already been published and is, I believe, used by the Gideons. Spanish - Trinitarian Bible Society I don't know Spanish, but an American friend who pastors a Spanish-speaking church in Texas tells me that it's very good.

    The puzzling thing is that the T.B.S. will not countenance a revision of the KJV which it still proclaims as the best English translation. Go figure! Confused:Rolleyes
     
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  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    No puzzle : the TBS expressly said they intend to revise *all* of their distributed foreign language translations to match the Scrivener TR that was back-constructed to match the KJV, which is their sole editorial touchstone of perfection.
     
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