Religious School Grads More Likely to Get Abortions

[Magnetic Poles]

Are you suggesting that abstaining from sex outside of marriage is an ultra-conservative religious view?

If not, what would be the ultra-conservative religious views that would be relevant to this discussion?

I am saying the obsession with abstinence and elevating sexuality to a level of sin above what it actually is, creates an environment of shame which leads to undesired consequences (such as lying, guilt, higher rates of abortion). Extramarital and premarital sex will be around as long as there are human beings. Young folks in particular have a strong biological drive to engage in such activity. To make it out to be about the worst thing a person can do will yield a multitude of other issues, and create emotional scars.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I do think that many Christians obsess more on sexual issues than any other, however. There are much worse things that people can do. I also don't see how it is worse than any other transgression of Biblical commands.

I agree that some Christians obsess about sexual sins more so than other Biblical transgressions. Here’s a possible reason why.

The Apostle Paul said that we are to “get away from sexual immorality quickly, because all other sins we that commit are outside of our bodies, but sexual sins are sins we commit against our own selves.” I think that he was saying that sexual sins, particular habitual sexual sins, can affect us more that other sins. It’s not that they are worse in God’s eyes, because they are not. But they can have more severe consequences. I didn't say that. Paul did.

I think you are exactly right. They would rather abort than face the shame put on them.

Shame is a great deceiver. It has deceived many people to do many things.

But shame can come from a number of places. Yes, it can come from a church, religious school, or set of parents unlovingly screaming the “do’s” and “don’ts” of the Bible over the years.

But not every girl who attends a religious school was browbeaten into feeling shame by the religiosity of an unloving authority. And even if she had been, there was no link between that and her decision to have an abortion. The author of the study said that.

Results revealed no significant link between a young woman's reported decision to have an abortion and her personal religiosity, as defined by her religious involvement, frequency of prayer and perception of religion's importance.

And not every religious school alumnus who had an abortion had it out of shame. The author of the study said that too.

"This research suggests that young, unmarried women are confronted with a number of social, financial and health-related factors that can make it difficult for them to act according to religious values when deciding whether to keep or abort a pregnancy"...

People do not want to accept that ultra-conservative religious views have negative results at times.

MP, we aren’t talking about ultra-conservative religious views.

You, in your original post, and the author of the study are talking about these girls’ attendance ONLY of a private school, not a belief system. That what your post said and that’s what the author of the study said.

The author of the study herself said that there was no link between religious beliefs and being more likely to get an abortion.

If you want to talk about the negative results of ultra-conservatism, and you are right, there are negative effects, then please start another thread. I'll be on the bandwagon with you.

But....this study did NOT make a link between religion and abortion nor conservatism and abortion. It was about private schools and abortion.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Has anyone who read the paper found any error in its methodology?

Yes, not that it’s methodology was explained at all. Because it wasn’t. What was the hypothesis? What was the control group? How did they prepare for the keeping out experimental bias?

I found two examples of experimental bias just in this short summary.

They were glaring.

Twenty-five percent of women in the sample reported having an abortion, a likely underestimate, Adamczyk said.

How does she know that this is an underestimate? She said it was “likely” an underestimate? What does she base that on? Where is the control group that she compared this experimental group to? If she has no prior data to compare this 25% to, then this is experimental bias. If there is a prior set of data to claim that the 25% is likely an underestimate, then could we see it please? I’m not saying that there is not…..I would just like to see it.

Also, the article state that 1504 unmarried and never-divorced young women ages 26 and under from 125 different schools?

OK…… were all 125 of these schools religious schools? If so, then where is the control group?

The author of the study also state this:

"These schools tend to generate high levels of commitment and strong social ties among their students and families, so abortion rates could be higher due to the potential for increased feelings of shame related to an extramarital birth."

In science, there is no room for “could be, should be, and might be” in stating definitive causalities. Scientists are to report the facts was what was uncovered in the research. Did she conduct a study prior to this study that measured the “shame factor” being taught in these school? As I said earlier to Magnetic Poles, shame can come from a variety of sources.

So, yes, they could be having abortions because of shame. They could also be having abortions because of fear. Or because they don’t give a flying flip about the unborn. Or because they don’t wish to lose their boyfriends. Or because they don’t want to drop out of college. Or because they don’t believe that the unborn is a viable human being. Or because……oh, well. Do you see?

The could be’s are endless.






I just don't think a link can be made between girls having conservative religious beliefs and them being more likely to have abortions.

Don't see how anyone who read the paper could come to this conclusion from the paper.

What in the paper leads anyone to conclude that this comment reflects the data or the conclusions of the paper?

Well, some here have come to that very conclusion that the article was implying that girls with conservative beliefs are more apt to have abortions.

The author of the study herself said that there was no link between religious beliefs and being more likely to get an abortion.

Results revealed no significant link between a young woman's reported decision to have an abortion and her personal religiosity, as defined by her religious involvement, frequency of prayer and perception of religion's importance.

It only stated that her affiliation with a religious school was a link, not her beliefs.

Despite the absence of a link between personal religious devotion and abortion, religious affiliation did have some important influence.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You are correct.

Also I find it interesting how many people attack the study, but do not address the issue of teen pregnancy and how it can be addressed with positive effects.

The issue of teen pregnacy and how it can be addressed with positive effects is not the question that was asked in the original post.

If it appears that some have attacked the study it is because the study has been used to claim that conservative or ultraconservative Christian values lead to shame and shame leads to abortion.

The study does not say that ANYWHERE. In fact it says differently.

It says:

"Religious school attendance is not necessarily indicative of conservative religious beliefs because students attend these schools for a variety of reasons,"

It also says this.

Results revealed no significant link between a young woman's reported decision to have an abortion and her personal religiosity, as defined by her religious involvement, frequency of prayer and perception of religion's importance.

If you wish to have a discussion on teen pregnancy and how to address it positively and you appear to do so because you "find it interesting" that that's not what is being discussed, then please start a thread with that very topic announced. :flower:

The study is not under attack in a vaccuum. (Except for it's vague findings and poor reporting). The results of the study are questioned because of the link made by readers to a woman's religious beliefs and her likelihood to get an abortion.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Scarlet, you raise some good points. However, the study is not just private vs. public; but private religious vs public schools. Now we do not know from the report exactly what type of schools were studied.

There are a lot of things we don't know, but bear in mind, this is a news report, not the study itself. Typically, such a report will leave the reader to seek more data themselves. I do believe more information could have been included, but would like to read the actual methodology myself.

That said, I don't mind that this thread has evolved a bit into a broader discussion. I had hoped that it might do so. Still I appreciate the time you have taken to make a lucid response and input into the dialog. It is most refreshing, as well as informative.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Thus saith the king of spin. You put words in people's mouth with regularity. By all means, rather than attacking, how about clarification. Sounded to me like you favor eliminating MTV and other media you deem offensive. If that is not true, please clarify or correct your earlier statement.

I don't have to clarify anything. You should know where I stand, by now. If you don't pay more attention. I refuse to spend my time here explaining my statements.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I will give you this one. If a proposition is true, it should be able to withstand the light of examination and scrutiny. Anything else is a blind faith. Truth has no problem being exposed to the light of reason.

The light of reason ?

First of all, Satan can disguise himself as light.

Second. trust above human reasoning is a biblical command.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

The light of reason ?

First of all, Satan can disguise himself as light.

Second. trust above human reasoning is a biblical command.

The human ability to reason has brought us the blessings of modern science. It has proven to be the most formidable tool for the betterment of humanity than any other.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Really ? What scientific gains have we made by denying scripture ? What scientific facts are there that prove the bible wrong ?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Really ? What scientific gains have we made by denying scripture ? What scientific facts are there that prove the bible wrong ?

These are not statements I have made, and therefore I will not address them. They are from your own head.

 

[LadyEagle]

Closed, well past the 3-page limit.

LE