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Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, May 15, 2007.

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  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Nope, as you know from reading me here, I am not impressed by these guys, by any of them.

    I think you need to go back and read more closely. To say that Ron Paul has not offered workable solutions says nothing about anyone else. I gave my perspective. If you don't agree, fine. But don't make stuff up. I think the Republican party has done a bad job. I think this president has done a bad job. How many times do I have to say that?

    So this is a good thing? "He can't do any better but at least he is a different sort of clown"? I don't like that approach.

    It wouldn't be long until they were back as they are now
     
    #41 Pastor Larry, May 16, 2007
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Well, we know that how well one speaks is not a detriment to being elected president based on who won the last two presidential elections. :)
     
    #42 KenH, May 16, 2007
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Perhaps you missed the word outright. Don't be silly, Ken.
     
    #43 Pastor Larry, May 16, 2007
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    But at least the American people would get a break for at least maybe a couple of decades.
     
    #44 KenH, May 16, 2007
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Who is saying the Department of Homeland (In)Security should be disbanded totally effective May 17, 2007? If someone has, please link to the quote.
     
    #45 KenH, May 16, 2007
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Didja see my question mark ? It's alleged he said it on another blog, and I'm fact checking.
     
    #46 Bro. Curtis, May 16, 2007
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    In the example that Ron Paul provided, he simply told the truth about the United States replacing the elected government of Iran with the Shah in 1953. This action and the hardline rule by the Shah caused hatred of the United States and led to the Islamic revolution in Iran in 1979 and mess we have seen afterwards. I doubt that very many Americans know this history. After all, it's not covered on "American Idol".

    I fear for the continued viability of this nation as a constitutional republic if we elect as president someone with as little knowledge of history and the concept of cause-and-effect as Rudy Giuliani.

    Anyone, such as Rudy Giuliani, who thinks that our federal government can run all over the world and stick its nose in the business of any country it wants to without there being repercussions is not dealing with reality.

    Here's an account for those interested in the details:

    www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php
     
    #47 KenH, May 16, 2007
    Last edited: May 16, 2007
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Hard line rule by the Shah ? Iran flourished during that time, women had rights, businesses were growing, they had good relations with the rest of the world......it was the Shia clergy that wanted a return to the 7th cetury, which happened when Jimmuh Carter decided the Iranian people didn't deserve democracy. And of course, the Shah's recognition of Israel was the mortal sin he could not be forgiven for.

    And the Iranian government under the Shah's father was not democratically elected, rather a nationalized power grab. He subjigated his population, and much like Romania in the '80s, a few lived very well off the labor of many.
     
    #48 Bro. Curtis, May 16, 2007
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Brother Curtis, but we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. I think that the Iranian people were entitled to have their elected government in the 1950s and to do with their natural resources as they wish without interference by the United States government.

    I don't excuse a dictatorship simply because there may be a few good things that it produces.
     
    #49 KenH, May 16, 2007
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    #50 James_Newman, May 16, 2007
  11. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Again, they didn't elect him. The point may be valid that we should not have installed a government, but the one we replaced was not a democracy. Let's not get the facts wrong.

    And one more point, we installed the Shah because of his father's threats against Israel, and his financial dealings in Hitler's Germany. We probably felt after establishing Israel, we should probably not leave them to be devoured.

    Maybe right, maybe wrong. But facts are facts.
     
    #51 Bro. Curtis, May 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2007
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The parliament of Iran was most certainly an elected body.
     
    #52 KenH, May 16, 2007
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I have often disagreed with Alan Colmes on issues ever since I listened to his radio show way back in the 1990s. But, frankly, I think he is a better human being than Sean Hannity.
     
    #53 KenH, May 16, 2007
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The points that Ron Paul made about the Middle East are basically the same points that the 9/11 Commission made in their report. He wasn't breaking new ground nor were his points outside the mainstream - unless, of course, one considers the 9/11 Commission to have been outside the mainstream.
     
    #54 KenH, May 16, 2007
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Ken, Reza Shah was not democratically elected. Actually, I think it was the British that installed him, to defeat the Bolsheviks. I could be wrong, but being over there during the time following the hostage crisis, we studied the history of the area.
     
    #55 Bro. Curtis, May 16, 2007
  16. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Well I'm going to give the 9/11 Commission a chance to take it back, and then its fisticuffs!:laugh:
     
    #56 James_Newman, May 16, 2007
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Bro. Curtis, I am talking about the parliament and the prime minister. The basic idea was to have a constitutional monarchy such as Great Britain has. United States government intervention in 1953 ended that dream for the Iranian people.
     
    #57 KenH, May 16, 2007
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    :thumbs: :thumbs: :laugh:
     
    #58 KenH, May 16, 2007
  19. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Prime minister ? Where does that come in ? What prime minister ? What good was he during Raza Shah's reign ? And what was the dream you talk of ?
     
    #59 Bro. Curtis, May 16, 2007
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  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Here is the segment of the spat between Rudy Giuliani and Ron Paul:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk334TbliaY

    An interventionist foreign policy produces blowback. It doesn't matter if a government has good intentions or not. Every action produces a reaction. That is life. Rudy Giuliani needs to get a grip on reality?

    How would we react in this country if another country decides that the United States government is a threat to its security, builds a big enough military, and invades our country and replaces our government. Would they be justified in doing so if we have not attacked it?
     
    #60 KenH, May 16, 2007
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