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Rep. Grayson Calls Labor Unions Strongest Force for ‘Good Government’

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Revmitchell, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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  2. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    More than you realize..... the union socialist mentality didn't stop with harassing the goose that laid the golden egg...... It worked to kill it and now complains how its quartered and fried! You couldn't keep your employer in line so you join a union to control the boss. Then you elect your union bosses and they take your dues and make promises, and they keep you safe from infractions and protect the divisions of work assignments.... so efficiency and cross training can't work for everyone's benefit..... then they party and organize.... not only the work place but the community and the politics.... telling folks what to think and steering them how to vote.

    As for the one who works and doesn't join the union.... doesn't picket with you... who keeps the company running during your absence...... don't you think he deserve his pay for his work.... or is that just a union privilege? Don't you think he has the right to chose to work as much as you have the right to stop or quit? If you belong to a group which is organized and some thugs within use slashing tires or other vandalism or battery or threats to discourage him.... and no one in the union opposes such..... isn't it like you agreed to it, even if you weren't involved?

    There's a scripture... a story.... an employer at the start of the day hired of those willing to work... a days labor for a penny. Seeing the work would not be finished without more hires ....he employed more workers for a penny at mid day; With the day fading and still more to be done... he went out late and hired more workers to help with finishing the job by nightfall, promising them each a penny. When it came time to pay... the ones hired first complained that they only received a penny but had worked all day and received the same wages as the last.... and thought it unjust: Yet, truthfully, they had received that which was promised and that which they had agreed to. Where was the merit in their complaint?
     
  3. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    Lazy huh? Well, it's amazing what you know about my work when you have never seen me a day in my life. I wonder how hard you work for a living?

    As far as "scabs" crossing our picket lines, we never stopped them, but as soon as we settled, the company quickly let most of them go. They could have kept their job if they had worked hard enough, but most of them were the lazy ones who couldn't find a real job, so eventually they were laid off or fired.
     
  4. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    I'm just judging your work ethic from what I know about your union "brothers". You know what they say, you can be judged by who you associate with.

    Oh, you don't think the union had anything to do with them being let go?
     
  5. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    That's silly. My Uncle Jeremy is a truck driver for UPS and he's in a union and he's a hard worker.
     
  6. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know a couple of UPS drivers as well. They've both told me that there is practically no way they can be fired because the union won't allow it. They have no incentive to work hard.
     
  7. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    My uncle also knows Clay Yarborough, who is on City Council and works for UPS as a recruiter. I know Clay too because we go to the same church. He's a very hardworking and ambitious person. Ten years ago, when he was only nineteen, Clay became the youngest elected official in Florida history when he won election to the Duval County Soil & Water Management Board. Now at age 29, he already has a decade of political experience behind him. If I lived in his district I'd vote for him even though he's a Republican.
     
  8. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that you would vote for him. He seems to hold views very contrary to liberal views you hold to around here. Why would you vote for him, because you know him?

    Some views in particular that I figured you wouldn't like would be:

    1. When asked "Just in general, do you believe Muslims should be able to hold any public office in Florida?", he responded:

    2. When asked "Do you think homosexuals should be able to hold a public office in Florida?", he responded:

    3. When asked "Do you believe all kinds of prayers are acceptable in public buildings? If not, which prayers are acceptable?", he responded:


    Hey...now this is my kind of candidate...but he doesn't seem like yours.
     
  9. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    I also trust him and party affiliation isn't as important in local races.

    If he's THAT far to the Right where he's an extremist, I might have to reconsider. I know he's been in a lot of hot water for asking improper religious questions for nominees to the Human Rights Commission, but I have not heard about the quotes you posted. Do you have a source?

    I agree with the response from a theological perspective, but if he's trying to violate the establishment clause of the First Amendment as applied to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment, I will have to oppose him on that.

    EDIT: I found the quotes you posted on the Times-Union website. Clay is dead wrong and needs to be educated on the Constitution. However, I still like him as a person.
     
    #49 FR7 Baptist, Apr 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  10. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    You're kidding, right?

    Non-union workers...are lazier?

    Delusional viewpoint. You've been brainwashed.

    I'm still waiting for an explanation for why a Christian would be "yelling at scabs."

    I'm sure, instead of an explanation from Snow, I'll get a personal attack.
     
  11. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    Whether or not a person is lazy isn't contingent on whether or not they are in a union. For more than half of my thirty plus years as a machinist I have been in non-union shops. In fact, I now work at a non-union shop. It is a relatively small shop and they treat us well.

    You, and others here have a mindset that all unions are alike and all unions are evil. This is not true. When I was in my twenties I worked for a very large shop and the union grievance man would scold the lazy workers and tell us that if we didn't give the company a fair day's wage, there was not much he could do for us. For many years the union and the company got along well.
     
  12. targus

    targus New Member

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    In a bad year would you also feel that the company owes you a piece of the loss?

    Would you be willing to give back money to the company if the bottom line were negative?
     
  13. targus

    targus New Member

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    Even if the job is simply not worth what a person needs to live off?

    Ever deliver newspapers?

    Should a newpaper company be required to pay someone $50,000 a year to pedal a route?

    If not, why not?

    Doesn't the company have a responsibilty to the shareholders?

    Most stock is now held in retirement funds?

    If you were to buy stock in a particular company in order to plan for your retirement would you think that it is important that the people who work for be paid the highest possible wage (like in the newpaper delivery example) while you watch your retirement investment tank?

    Or would you want the company to pay market wages and provide a market return on your investment?


    That really isn't something to brag about.

    The taxpayers are paying more than the job is worth.

    If the census were to be privatized it no doubt would cost a fraction of what the government is paying and the results would no doubt be more accurate.
     
  14. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that capitalism is designed to give the worker as small a piece of the pie as is possible?

    Your ignorance of communist theory would be amusing if it were not so sad. If you are going to take positions you really should know something about what you are for and what you are against.

    The best protection of our democracy is an educated, thinking, informed electorate
     
  15. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    They treat you well, yet you still made the comment earlier:

    Out of one side of your mouth you say they treat you well and out of the other you think you aren't given a "fair share of the pie". Which is it?
     
  16. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    And the best protection of our Constitutional Republic is for people who think we live in a Democracy to realize otherwise.
     
  17. Mississippi John

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    Do you think all Union members are "lazy bums" or just Robert Snow ?
     
  18. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    How little can another human being's labor be worth?

    No.

    No. Because the market rates for bicycle newspaper delivery aren't that high and you don't need $50K to live off of, also that would be a part-time job. My local paper uses trucks anyway.

    Yes.

    I never said that they should be paid the highest possible wage, only a reasonable one.

    Nope, we have the smartest, most motivated and well-educated force of enumerators in recent history. I'm doing this full time during the summer as a temporary job for $15/ hour. I start training next Tuesday. If this were a permanent job, I would be pulling in $31,200 per year. That's not exactly going to make me rich. It is enough to live off of, if it were permament, however. The best part is I'm going to be able to pay cash for my college tuition.

    Also not true. The private contractor would just try to maximize profit at the expense of accuracy. They wouldn't be able to attract as good of a work force, either. Getting these jobs in this economy is very competitive, and I'm not going to apologize for taking the job.

    What do you want me to do, tell them "you're paying too much, I don't want the job"?
     
  19. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    You are so willing to complain about what I say, you look at everything in the worse possible light. The job and the working conditions where I currently work are great, but even the company itself admits that they don't pay as much as some shops do. Although we make a profit, the owners are not willing to give us what I consider fair compensation. The only way we get decent money is to work quite a bit of overtime, and at my age, this is difficult on my body. Other than that, it is a wonderful place to work. In spite of the money situation, I have not even applied anywhere else since I have been there, we workers get along good with management, which is a big plus.

    You seem to work on the premise that all union shops are bad and all non-union shops are good. This is too simplistic for the real world. I have worked at some union shops that were horrible, union or not. I have worked at some union shops that were wonderful to work for. Same for non-union shops. Some have been good, and some not so good.
     
    #59 Robert Snow, Apr 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2010
  20. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    I believe the majority of union members are lazy bums. There are some people that are stuck in a union because they feel pressures to join.
     
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